ZZP is the worst! Everyone needs to read this before spending any money with them.

Quote from Vsp1140

Simple yes or no question, if the OP had shipped the motor back to you on his own dime, would you have refunded his shipping cost back to him in the event the things he said were wrong, were indeed wrong?

This is the only problem I see on this issue of returning the item to the company for “check up”. How can a person really know that company won’t cover their mistakes and blame the issue entirely on the owner? How can the consumer be sure that the company will have honor and stand truly by their findings? Unless you had a second or even third opinion on what really caused the issues I dont think the main company that manufactured and built the motor can be trusted by itself. Goes for any company in any similar scenario.

zooomer  N2Orbit

Sorry I am coming to the party late. So knowing this whole story brings back horror stories of my own with ZZP. So far reading this post I have some favorite quotes I will share.

“Had the kit been installed as shipped, the sling would be alive and well as are so many other customers.”

Bought all the necessary part for my turbo kit from ZZP. installed it myself and it blew up 600 miles later. Installed it just the way your manual says to install it. Idled fine on first start up. Took it down the road hit second and it hesitated for 2 seconds and took off. I though damn that is some serious turbo lag for a system described to have none. I got home looked for leaks there were none. No pipes coming off or loose. I contacted Kyle and he said hmm never heard of that before. I hooked up a boost leak tester to it and it held pressure. No leak. I take it out the following morning and no problem. It was weird but it was working. The issue was on and off. You could hear detonation while getting higher in the rpm’s. Kyle told me the plugs are probably not gapped right. I checked those too. They were right. I ordered another set on my own. Same problem. I went back and forth with kyle. It would run right and then it wouldn’t. I figured well i will just baby it for now. I went to go on a ride a few sunday’s later. Cruising at 65 MPH along with 4 other none boosted sling. 5 minutes into the ride bike shuts off in the middle of a 4 lane highway. No power will not start. Now i am in the middle two lanes with cars and slings all around me going just as fast. I manage to get it to the side of the road and towed home. Call kyle he says send me the log. I was trying to get some info before I had to go upstairs and get my

Laptop. I already knew the motor was shot. Took the head off to find cylinder one and two with big chunks missing. Coming from the racing world I know the hardships of turbo cars. The difference is I bought this kit because I was assured by kevin adams All things slingshots and Kyle from ZZP that this kit was designed not to have a problem. The bike only had 3k miles on it when I installed the kit. Long story short because it is a year long story of back and forth. 3 motors, 6 o2 sensors, 6 sets of plugs, 2 different tunes, a different map sensor, multiple sets of injectors, only being able to drive the bike 1,200 miles between all those things and one pissed off wife. I switched to DDM. I put a stock motor in with their turbo kit and put over 4,000 miles on my bike in the last 5 months. I installed all the motors and all the turbo kits myself.

“Excellent question and super important for those thinking of having work done to understand. This is why I like these failures public and people posting experiences good“

Your guys don’t talk about any problems you have with kits, motors or anything so to me this comment is BS. All I every got was “we have never heard of that before”

“ZZP Brand parts come with a 2 year warranty. That warranty covers parts. If you buy a turbo kit and install it or pay someone else to install it, we cover the turbo kit itself.”

the parts come with a 2 year warranty of how it could not possibly be ZZP’s parts fault or crap tunes as the problem. You tuner got on facebook and called me an “asshole”,“scumbag”, “a dick rider” all because I posted that DDM had a fix for people’s issues on the ZZP kits. Now I am a grown man. I don’t do internet tough guy. If that had been in person he would be playing 52 pickup with his teeth. Not a threat it is the truth. He is a terrible representation of your company. I called your office to speak with kyle after the second motor blew and was told I can send him an email. You can imagine I was beyond frustrated and told the secretary I don’t want to send an email I spent $3,400 with your company. I want to talk with who sold it to me. Kyle later responded via email and instead of addressing my concerns he was mad at me for being frustrated with the secretary. He has said On multiple posts that their is nothing to salvage with me. That is a shitty attitude to have towards a customer regardless of past or present. As an owner these are the type of things you should be addressing. I could sit here and bash ZZP all day long. But why waste my breath. The product and some employees speaks for itself. If you guys spent more time listening instead of defending yourself you could actually fix the problems. How is it that DDM manages to get our kits to work and you can’t? I am not yelling or trying to be disrespectful. I am asking you real questions. How you respond to them will make me understand your roll in all of this. You are either a solution to the problem or the cause of your employee’s “we don’t care attitude”.

You had said before that you don’t want to hear people know something blew because they do this or that for work. So I won’t go into detail of how I know it was not the way I installed my kit that caused my issues or even what caused Brian’s. Just know for a lot of us this in not our first fast vehicle or our first build.

Quote from OrangeSlingFL

This is the only problem I see on this issue of returning the item to the company for “check up”. How can a person really know that company won’t cover their mistakes and blame the issue entirely on the owner? How can the consumer be sure that the company will have honor and stand truly by their findings? Unless you had a second or even third opinion on what really caused the issues I dont think the main company that manufactured and built the motor can be trusted by itself. Goes for any company in any similar scenario.

You don't. In fact most companies will just blame the user to avoid warranty claims. I know, it happened to me 4 times and it's why I started ZZP. Tired of people not taking accountability when I said "tell me what to do" I followed instructions and got screwed. It really comes down to trust. Customer can say 'how do I know you won't screw me' and company can say the same of customer. So reputation is what it's about. There are situations where a customer is just going to be mad. DDM's BBB page has those customers, so does ZZP. It happens. Over time patterns develop. 95% of tuning and parts shop fail. There's a lot of reasons but there's a reason ZZP is #1 in our respective markets. It's not from screwing customers. There's a reason we have high customer retention. It's not from having a majority of bad experiences. Can something bad happen? Sure.

To the OP shipping a motor back. The information I got led me to believe the situation was getting out of hand. I was hearing about bolts falling out of the engine, the tune being bad, the timing chain being wrong, the piston rings being wrong. What happens in these markets is that when one thing goes bad, sometimes everything is wrong (in the customer's mind). Then you get another shop chiming in. I've been here. I know how to handle it and how not to handle it. You can't half step because the customer and his new trusted sources are going to pick apart everything and create false problems. Trust me. I have 20+ years, I know how this goes. This is why we told the customer we wanted his entire vehicle. It was the only way to give him what he truly wanted which was a successful high HP build w/o problems and a full warranty.

We had a Cobalt we sold a forged motor to in CA. His master tech installer with 1000 years experience put it in. The motor went bad pretty quick. Bad ring, burning oil. Customer was furious. Swearing about our POS engine. 100% positive our motor was shit. We talked him into shipping that entire car to MI. We got it and realized he had purchased a catch can and installed it wrong. They were pressurizing the crank case with 25psi which wiped out the motor. Happy to find the problem, shitty to tell the customer it's his fault. We work to ease the bill but it's an example that happens often. There's no way we could have known that. Customer was 100% sure it was our fault. Again, trust comes into play. Had that customer sent us back the engine (more common route) we'd have replaced or fixed it, sent out another and he'd have had the same problems and be on the forums spamming about how horrible ZZP is. We are in this for the long haul and because we love the sport. Our team knows how to handle issues. They don't need special permissions or meetings to make situations right. We handle every situations and customer the same. Whether they swear and spam the forums or kiss our ass. Our policies don't change. When it's our fault, we try and make it right. When a customer is making a mistake like taking our build to another shop, we tell them as I did here. This will not go well for you, send us the sling. In this case the OP spent more at DDM than the cost of shipping the slingshot to us and still doesn't have a successful build. He's posting how his money is all down the drain. Well that's not because I gave him bad advice, it's because he didn't take the advice I gave. When you say 'no I'm not listening I'm going my own way' you are also saying 'i take responsibility for what happens from here'.

Quote from Xclaudio24

zooomer  N2Orbit

Bought all the necessary part for my turbo kit from ZZP. installed it myself

Don't know anything about your or your build but I'll look into it.

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Quote from OrangeSlingFL

This is the only problem I see on this issue of returning the item to the company for “check up”. How can a person really know that company won’t cover their mistakes and blame the issue entirely on the owner? How can the consumer be sure that the company will have honor and stand truly by their findings? Unless you had a second or even third opinion on what really caused the issues I dont think the main company that manufactured and built the motor can be trusted by itself. Goes for any company in any similar scenario.

Unfortunately OrangeSlingFL That is how warranty obligations are dealt with in America , in all industries. If you purchase an item and are not satisfied with its performance and you wish to make a warranty claim the obligation is always on you to return the item to the seller for their inspection , analysis and warranty decision.

If ,and only if, you return an item you feel you are justified in receiving warranty work on , but are declined, then and only then , do you have a case that may standup in a civil court if you have to pull the product back and take it to a third party who properly documents and offers qualified evidence that the issue should have been warrantied and the courts agree.

There are Consumer protection laws and legislation ( Moss- Magnuson Warranty Act) that spell out Vendor AND Purchaser obligations and the contract law the Purchaser agrees to, requiring him to return items for decisions of warrantiabilIty, in the terms of the original purchase agreement are binding. I can tell you for a fact, as I sell for all slingshot manufacturers, ZZP, DDM, TWIST DYNAMICS, and all vendors , yes even Slingmods, that ZZP'S Return / Warranty Policies comply with industry standards everywhere., And that is all Kyle and Zoom have been saying all along send it back and we,ll fix it, if indeed it is warrantiable, but only if it is warrantiable,. And Zoom has cited you many examples of how consumers misunderstand warranties. Simply believing they installed a product in accordance with the instructions and did nothing wrong from an operator's point of view DOES NOT MAKE A CLAIM WARRANTIABLE . The evidence, as it lies in the equipment when inspected is what determines warrantiable criteria.

Hence all warranty claims and return policies are clearly published on every reputable vendor/ manufacture's website and most read as follows " We will gladly accept the return, refund or exchange of products that are defective due to defects in manufacturing and/or workmanship for 30 days from the date of purchase." meaning before

a determination of a defect in manufacturing and/or workmanship can be made, ""THE RETURN "must be made ! and that folks is quoted directly from another good vendor's website, DDMWORKS.com

Quote from Tripod

Guess my choice of MOD being Gas has gotten me down the road 97,000+ miles and lots and lots of smiles and is working out real good.

Excellent choice EjFord !!! Gasoline ROCKS!!!

Kev, not always sir!

My first DDMWorks built engine had an issue after a few months of hard driving, not abuse, just having fun....

Dave drove out to Texas and picked it up, ended up installing another engine, chit happens.

He brought it back to me after swap...my bill for that was 0 dollars!!!!!
DDMWorks’s made a customer for life!!

That’s how some companies still treat there customers!

Quote from kev

Hence all warranty claims and return policies are clearly published on every reputable vendor/ manufacture's website and most read as follows " We will gladly accept the return, refund or exchange of products that are defective due to defects in manufacturing and/or workmanship for 30 days from the date of purchase." meaning before

a determination of a defect in manufacturing and/or workmanship can be made, ""THE RETURN "must be made ! and that folks is quoted directly from another good vendor's website, DDMWORKS.com

Maybe we need to be more clear with that line, thanks for pointing it out I have never read that line and thought that it says we require the item back for inspection before we can do anything about taking care of the customer. I guess when reading the line in the full context that it is on our website, it just made sense to us that we want the customer to be taken care of and be happy, here is the full version on http://www.ddmworks.com -

"Not happy with the fit or finish? If you are not happy, we are not happy! We will gladly accept the return, refund or exchange of products that are defective due to defects in manufacturing and/or workmanship for 30 days from the date of purchase."

Since we do not get returns or warranty claims very often maybe we need to look into that a little more, but when a customer can clearly state the problem and can show via a text message, picture in an email, video, etc. the issue they are having, we just send them out a replacement part. Why would any business make a customer wait to be taken care of if that company supplied the defective part?

Quote from kev

Quote from OrangeSlingFL

This is the only problem I see on this issue of returning the item to the company for “check up”. How can a person really know that company won’t cover their mistakes and blame the issue entirely on the owner? How can the consumer be sure that the company will have honor and stand truly by their findings? Unless you had a second or even third opinion on what really caused the issues I dont think the main company that manufactured and built the motor can be trusted by itself. Goes for any company in any similar scenario.

Unfortunately OrangeSlingFL That is how warranty obligations are dealt with in America , in all industries. If you purchase an item and are not satisfied with its performance and you wish to make a warranty claim the obligation is always on you to return the item to the seller for their inspection , analysis and warranty decision.

If ,and only if, you return an item you feel you are justified in receiving warranty work on , but are declined, then and only then , do you have a case that may standup in a civil court if you have to pull the product back and take it to a third party who properly documents and offers qualified evidence that the issue should have been warrantied and the courts agree.

There are Consumer protection laws and legislation ( Moss- Magnuson Warranty Act) that spell out Vendor AND Purchaser obligations and the contract law the Purchaser agrees to, requiring him to return items for decisions of warrantiabilIty, in the terms of the original purchase agreement are binding. I can tell you for a fact, as I sell for all slingshot manufacturers, ZZP, DDM, TWIST DYNAMICS, and all vendors , yes even Slingmods, that ZZP'S Return / Warranty Policies comply with industry standards everywhere., And that is all Kyle and Zoom have been saying all along send it back and we,ll fix it, if indeed it is warrantiable, but only if it is warrantiable,. And Zoom has cited you many examples of how consumers misunderstand warranties. Simply believing they installed a product in accordance with the instructions and did nothing wrong from an operator's point of view DOES NOT MAKE A CLAIM WARRANTIABLE . The evidence, as it lies in the equipment when inspected is what determines warrantiable criteria.

Hence all warranty claims and return policies are clearly published on every reputable vendor/ manufacture's website and most read as follows " We will gladly accept the return, refund or exchange of products that are defective due to defects in manufacturing and/or workmanship for 30 days from the date of purchase." meaning before

a determination of a defect in manufacturing and/or workmanship can be made, ""THE RETURN "must be made ! and that folks is quoted directly from another good vendor's website, DDMWORKS.com

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Didn't read your entire post... too long, usually are.

From what I did read seems you are defending vendors absolute minimum responsibility required by law and that's it. Sir that is a legal starting point that the Feds set, you are more than able to go above and beyond if you wish. Companies with good customer service do.

I own an RV built in Alabama. A whole lot more invested than any Slingshot. If I have a problem I pick up the phone and can speak to the owner of the company or one of his sons. Never waited more than an hour for a return call. If it is something I can handle myself they send me parts directly no matter where I am, usually overnight. If an obvious condition I don't wish to do myself they authorize immediate repairs by a local service that they pay for. If not they authorize a local shop of my choosing, or a mobile service, to diagnose the issue then send them parts, usually overnight. Or I can drive to their location where they treat you like royalty and do whatever is needed well beyond even their stated warranty to maintain the extremely loyal customer base who willingly pays a premium and supports this billion dollar 50 year old business (they started in Granddaddy's garage) that employs (directly or indirectly) most the people in the town they are located.

It always amazes me how some just can't keep their mouths shut and hurt themselves by forgetting without the customer they have no business.

Hole shot.gif

.........

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Just sayin. How did you drive your SS for 1200 miles? So many variables out there.If you saw something wrong upon receiving, why did you continue?

JUST SAYIN

You can bitch all you want but it's not going to be resolved on this forum. Time to move on, lesson learned.