ZZP is the worst! Everyone needs to read this before spending any money with them.

Quote from N2Orbit

I’m running spring pressure the boost controller isn’t on. Second he doesn’t know my boost controller did it. I mean if it’s not on how could it🙄. He’s just pulling out guesses not facts.

It doesn't matter if the boost controller blew up the motor or not. We don't cover blown factory engines when we sell power adders. No one in the world does. These conversations only happen in inexperienced markets. My point in bringing up the boost controller is that we've done thousands of builds. I can tell you that when customers are certain they know what they are doing and change boost controllers, motors blow up. A LOT. When people leave things alone, install it as instructed, keep good gas in it, they have good results.

100% of the time people change something, they argue (just like in this thread) that they did everything right.

Quote from zooomer

Specifically to the motor.
-The motor is covered under warranty for 2 years when we sell it. If there are/were problems, the motor has to come back at the customer's expense. We do not entertain customer diagnosis of what's wrong. In this case, customer is claiming many issues. Motor has to come back to determine what did or didn't happen. End of story, period, no exceptions ever.

-Customer said he wanted DDM to fix issues he said he had with the motor. We asked him to send us the vehicle and he refused. DDM 'fixed' the engine. They claimed something to do with the timing set being aftermarket. All our engines are like this, we disputed this was the issue. Customer was certain (then and now) he knew what the problem was. He paid DDM close to 2k to fix it. After he claimed there are other problems with the motor. The problem now is that it's a motor DD did 2k of work on and customer is saying there are loose bolts. He said there were loose bolts prior to DDM? if so, why weren't they addressed in the fix? If there were other problems, why weren't they addressed? Customer asked us to pay the DDM bill and claims that after repair the motor is still bad. You can't have it both ways. If you pay a shop to open your motor, it's your liability and our warranty is largely done. I told the customer this would happen, he proceeded to do things his own way but now wants us to be liable for his choices. That's why this is good to be public. Customers need to learn that if you open your motor or have someone else do work on it, it's no longer under warranty from ZZP. This is no different than any motor in any car sold by anyone.

I'm really on the fence about this case. I see both sides equally and in the end as I stated earlier, he has the option to take it to DDM, which he did and because of that, I can't rightfully agree that ZZP should have to pay any of the bill for that. At the end of the day, the customer had a bad experience and well that's going to happen, hell I'm never going back to Lowes after yesterdays events, nonetheless, I am happy that ZZP has agreed to fix an and all issues relating to their products even if the customer has to pay for the shipping cost, again that was a decision the OP made in the beginning by having someone install the motor in lieu of ZZP. Best of luck to both parties involved.

Quote from zooomer

it's no longer under warranty from ZZP. This is no different than any motor in any car sold by anyone.

I have no skin in this game, just watching with interest, but I'll stop you right there.

My ford truck is under warranty, if I have work done on it by a shop to repair a problem, the truck is still under warranty, including any engine work.

Now, if Ford can prove that it was the work performed that caused my problem, they may not warranty it, but Ford is going to have to show some proof. The fact that he had someone closer to him check and fix things, doesn't negate that warranty, at least if you are comparing it to other cars sold by anyone, as you stated.

Please continue with the in-flight entertainment, many are watching.

Quote from wokka

I have no skin in this game, just watching with interest, but I'll stop you right there.

My ford truck is under warranty, if I have work done on it by a shop to repair a problem, the truck is still under warranty, including any engine work.

Now, if Ford can prove that it was the work performed that caused my problem, they may not warranty it, but Ford is going to have to show some proof. The fact that he had someone closer to him check and fix things, doesn't negate that warranty, at least if you are comparing it to other cars sold by anyone, as you stated.

Please continue with the in-flight entertainment, many are watching.

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https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/c…485013_l_ltdwrnty_r05.pdf

In the case of an OEM, they do not cover work on modified engines. They do not cover unauthorized work on their vehicles. ZZP did not authorize DDM or the customer to 'fix' our engine. If you called Ford because your vehicle wasn't running right, they would tell you to bring it in. If you said 'no, I'm going to have my buddy tear down the engine and fix it' that would be the end of said warranty.

The components we sold are still under warranty. If a piston was out of round, rod failed, etc. it still covered. The entire motor itself is not covered under our standard engine warranty because it's not our engine anymore. We didn't sell all the components in it, we didn't put it together. The customer was told what to do and ignored instruction. The customer was told that if he brought it to DD and had it worked on, he would still have problems and be unhappy. It's strange to even have a discussion after that has been exchanged.

After reading this thread you basically have two options. 1: Pull the motor and ship it at your cost. They will determine what is wrong and fix it, then ship it back. 2: Cut your losses and go to another shop.

It does seem very reasonable to me that if you want the manufacture of a product to repair or replace it because you think it is defective that they would want you to ship back the bad item.

really what other reasonable option is there? should they just take my word its bad? or send out a crew to inspect it at my location?

other than a few very inexpensive items every thing I have ever needed to get replaced or repaired that I ordered and found to be defective I was required to return the bad item before they would replace it

Quote from zooomer

-Customer said he wanted DDM to fix issues he said he had with the motor. We asked him to send us the vehicle and he refused. DDM 'fixed' the engine. They claimed something to do with the timing set being aftermarket. All our engines are like this, we disputed this was the issue. Customer was certain (then and now) he knew what the problem was. He paid DDM close to 2k to fix it. After he claimed there are other problems with the motor. The problem now is that it's a motor DD did 2k of work on and customer is saying there are loose bolts. He said there were loose bolts prior to DDM? if so, why weren't they addressed in the fix? If there were other problems, why weren't they addressed? Customer asked us to pay the DDM bill and claims that after repair the motor is still bad. You can't have it both ways. If you pay a shop to open your motor, it's your liability and our warranty is largely done. I told the customer this would happen, he proceeded to do things his own way but now wants us to be liable for his choices. That's why this is good to be public. Customers need to learn that if you open your motor or have someone else do work on it, it's no longer under warranty from ZZP. This is no different than any motor in any car sold by anyone.

Not sure if there is confusion in the timeline of events, this was covered on the Facebook post also, but just a reminder -

1. The large front access bolt on the front of the cylinder head came out before the Slingshot came to us to repair the timing chain issues.

2. The black timing chain guide bolt behind that large front access bolt came out before we did the repairs for the timing chain issues.

3. The timing chain tensioner itself came out before we did the repairs for the timing chain issues.

Unless we have missed a message from Brian, there have been no loose or missing bolts come out of the engine since we repaired the engine. I am not sure if you are trying to place blame on us for his engine troubles or turbo issues or if it is just a bad choice in wording. After we performed the repairs to the timing chain setup and the retune of the turbo kit, Brian has been able to finally drive and enjoy his Slingshot that sat for months without a resolution. He has also successfully made several trips with the Slingshot and put many more miles on it then before we repaired the engine with the timing chain issues. The only thing on the engine that seems to still need work is the piston to wall clearance seems to be excessive for the pistons being used in the build, which causes a knock until the engine starts to warm up.

I posted this picture on Facebook in our discussion there, but it clearly shows that there was an issue with the timing chain that Brian had. I am not going to get into who is responsible for paying for what, I will just say that we would have handled the situation much differently though -

I was 99% convinced that I was going to buy and install a DDM supercharger until reading this thread. Not sure I want to try the install myself now .

Quote from N2Orbit

So your cool with paying someone to pull the motor then crate it up and ship it out and then pay to ship it back. I would guess at a cost of at least $1,500 to get a product that has no excuse to leave the shop the way it did.

Take my word it’s bad? I’ll replay to zoom when I’m in front of a computer and not my phone. I took it to a professional shop to look at what was wrong with the motor When you have stuff randomly fall off and you have parts missing that’s an issue.

I didn’t think it was defective it was and still is.

I’m not trying to be rude but let’s just say the loose bolts were my only issue and it skipped timing. You’re telling me you would pay to pull it out and ship it back when you could take it to a shop and have it done for a few hundred???? Wouldn’t you want a local shop to go over it. If you got the motor in this condition would you really trust it going back and being fixed? Hell there was a every time I took it out it made me sick and I wondered what was going to fall off next.

zoom is going to come back and say but your Bill was $1,700. Yea I know that’s because I asked for GM timing components to be put in and like I said I only asked what he could do for me I never asked him to pay the whole bill. He Covered $0 and it needed a new timing chain apparently.

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I didnt say I was cool with it. I would be very upset, but that still doesn't change things

Seriously, if you sold thousand dollar items and someone called you and told you they got a bad one would you just send out a replacement without getting back the first one???

I've been doing this 20 years. We used to have different warrantees.

What we ran into was never ending unforeseen situations.

So a customer gets your engine, tells you it's bad. Seems very obvious you shipped said customer a bad part. You pay to get the motor back or pay to get the vehicle back and tell customer you're sorry and you'll cover everything. Part/vehicle comes back and you see something:

-not our oil filter and it's bad not letting oil through. Now ZZP is out shipping and customer is either A. Sorry, I guess just ship me the motor back or not wanting to pay return shipping or reimburse you for shipping. B. Furious you'd blame a broken rod on his oil filter.

Another time there was after market lines or customer tapped motor for oil feed.

Literally 100's of examples you'd never imagine. But you can NEVER know. Not until you have the parts/vehicle back.

When I bring these examples up EVERY customer says they didn't do anything. But time after time we got put in a bad situation. So we learned. Always get the parts back. If you get motor back and realize one of our engine builders screwed it up, you can refund the customer or reimburse them for having to pull your defective engine. When you see different plugs in it that are too long and hit the pistons, you can tell the customer 'I'm sorry, here's what we found, it's not covered'
What we do now works pretty well when customers listen. We have warranty claims every day. We're happy to cover things, when it's our fault. This cannot be determined without said parts back in our possession.

Quote from zooomer

I've been doing this 20 years. We used to have different warrantees.

What we ran into was never ending unforeseen situations.

So a customer gets your engine, tells you it's bad. Seems very obvious you shipped said customer a bad part. You pay to get the motor back or pay to get the vehicle back and tell customer you're sorry and you'll cover everything. Part/vehicle comes back and you see something:

-not our oil filter and it's bad not letting oil through. Now ZZP is out shipping and customer is either A. Sorry, I guess just ship me the motor back or not wanting to pay return shipping or reimburse you for shipping. B. Furious you'd blame a broken rod on his oil filter.

Another time there was after market lines or customer tapped motor for oil feed.

Literally 100's of examples you'd never imagine. But you can NEVER know. Not until you have the parts/vehicle back.

When I bring these examples up EVERY customer says they didn't do anything. But time after time we got put in a bad situation. So we learned. Always get the parts back. If you get motor back and realize one of our engine builders screwed it up, you can refund the customer or reimburse them for having to pull your defective engine. When you see different plugs in it that are too long and hit the pistons, you can tell the customer 'I'm sorry, here's what we found, it's not covered'
What we do now works pretty well when customers listen. We have warranty claims every day. We're happy to cover things, when it's our fault. This cannot be determined without said parts back in our possession.

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Simple yes or no question, if the OP had shipped the motor back to you on his own dime, would you have refunded his shipping cost back to him in the event the things he said were wrong, were indeed wrong?

Quote from Vsp1140

Simple yes or no question, if the OP had shipped the motor back to you on his own dime, would you have refunded his shipping cost back to him in the event the things he said were wrong, were indeed wrong?

Yes. Absolutely. In some cases, we've gone further and given credit if they paid labor for the in/out. Depends on how egregious the situation.

Quote from N2Orbit

😂 It’s been 159 days since this motor was installed and today is the first day Zoom said anything about sending the motor back to them. 159 days! And I was never told id get any money back for shipping even if you were at fault. Zoom use your words carefully because I have that whole conversation. If you stated I send you my sling and if it’s messed up we will fix it and cover the cost WE WOULD NOT BE HERE TODAY!

okay - if sending the moter back has never been talked about in 159 days then why in you first post in this thread in the 9th paragraph why do you say this?

"So why didn’t I let ZZP fix their mistakes? Well I was told I would have to send it to them at my cost both ways I'm in NC so it would have been expensive."

?????????? - - doesn't help your credibility does it?

If he sent the slingshot entirely to us, there would be no refund of shipping. We would be eating all of the labor, parts and tuning, including a new full coverage warranty. .

I don't recall specifics of all the detail but if someone buy a motor from us, we do not pay any shipping when said motor goes bad or has problems after use. That's why I said egregious. If you buy a motor, install it, it doesn't work we're going to do a lot more than if you buy one and after using it, you start having problems. It's just different situations.