Alpha Supercharger Initial Impressions/Review

    I fabricated a safety bracket that holds the 2-bar MAP sensor firmly in place should the "clip" let go. I've attached a pic below. I've got decades of experience building prototypes, so 3D bent metal straps are almost innate to my brain... You know what they say -- "experience" is when you don't get what you want (unfortunately). One of the aftermarket Slingshot suppliers could offer a nice security strap -- frustration free. Just bolt it on. Great peace of mind.


    If people do want to fabricate one, I suggest mocking up a pattern using thick cardstock or paper which matches the thickness of the metal stock you'll use. Then leave a bit of extra length. Pre-drill the hole to the manifold bolt, but leave the hole for the throttle-body until everything is bent to shape. That way, you can drill the hole at the correct length to apply appropriate tension/clamping to the MAP sensor.



    It's not the best pic -- but the area under the fuel manifold has a restricted view.


    Hope this helps...

    Quote from WOLF

    @jaytee I am saddened to hear this. It made my heart sink. It brings back some sad, then great, then sad, then great memories. I know you'll be up and running in no time. Keep your head up and try to stay positive. :)

    will do, brother. If all goes as planned, i will be taking it down to ddm tomorrow night / tuesday. thanks!

    I like this idea. But we have never had a problem with our sensors coming out. As you said though it is a "great peace of mind" type of thing.

    Jeff Mellor
    DDMWorks
    119A Highway 183
    Piedmont, SC 29673
    Orders - 864-438-4949
    Tech Support - 864-907-6004
    www.DDMWorks.com

    Quote from Jeff@DDMWorks

    I like this idea. But we have never had a problem with our sensors coming out. As you said though it is a "great peace of mind" type of thing.


    @Jeff@DDMWorks in your opinion, would the sensor coming out cause the engine to blow?? If so, this makes me think that if anyone has a turbo or SC setup, a sensor going faulty = blown engine as well and I find that very difficult to believe.

    My thoughts on this:


    If the MAP sensor pops out it will not be able to read the pressure in the intake. The ECU would think the engine was NOT under boost and cut the fuel back and in turn the engine would run lean. It would do this in milliseconds so it wouldn't take but a second at redine to run lean. This would cause the engine to get extremely hot. I don't know how the engine came apart. Usually if the rod comes out the side of an engine it's due to detonation. That causes the piston to be pushed back down when technically it should be finishing it's up stroke. Which will break a rod or bend it and sling it out the side.


    If you just ran it lean it would typically burn a hole in the top of the piston or bust a ring groove apart. Which if it did it at the right spot it could seize up and break a rod.


    It's just a bad situation when all the fuel, timing, and spark don't come together at the correct time. Until the engine comes apart it would be a guess I think to say what caused it. I would need to see pictures of the engine to even take a stab at a guess.

    Quote from TheRock

    @Jeff@DDMWorks in your opinion, would the sensor coming out cause the engine to blow?? If so, this makes me think that if anyone has a turbo or SC setup, a sensor going faulty = blown engine as well and I find that very difficult to believe.

    We have never seen a MAP sensor get pushed completely out of the hole in the intake manifold, which would be the only way the fueling would be altered enough by the ECM to cause an engine failure. The tune by Bob that Alpha is using is based off of our original supercharger tune and is plenty safe for fueling. Even if the MAP sensor wiggled up a little bit and the reading was off a little, the air/fuel would most likely still be fine since the full throttle air/fuels are on the rich side. From what we have seen, I would think the only way to have the engine run lean enough to have it blow up is if the MAP sensor is completely pushed out of the intake manifold and that is just not something we have ever seen happen. We sent up a couple of 2 bar MAP sensors to Alpha when they were first looking into going to the 2 Bar MAP setup to help them out and we shared with them how we were making them work in the intake manifolds. If they are still making them how we showed them, they should not have any issues with the MAP sensors popping out since we have been doing the 2 bar MAP sensor in all supercharged kits since 2007 and have never had any issues with one popping out.


    Like @rabtech said though, without seeing the engine it is really hard to know what happened. If I had to guess though, the first thing I would look at would be the fuel injectors. The other Alpha supercharger kit that blew an engine in Arizona a couple weeks ago had a bad set of fuel injectors that caused the engine to run lean and blow up. Right now, that is what I would guess happened here also since that would make more sense than the MAP sensor just popping out. Hopefully we will find out though to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else and everyone can just be out enjoying boost :)


    Dave


    Quote from Dave@DDMWorks

    We have never seen a MAP sensor get pushed completely out of the hole in the intake manifold, which would be the only way the fueling would be altered enough by the ECM to cause an engine failure. The tune by Bob that Alpha is using is based off of our original supercharger tune and is plenty safe for fueling. Even if the MAP sensor wiggled up a little bit and the reading was off a little, the air/fuel would most likely still be fine since the full throttle air/fuels are on the rich side. From what we have seen, I would think the only way to have the engine run lean enough to have it blow up is if the MAP sensor is completely pushed out of the intake manifold and that is just not something we have ever seen happen. We sent up a couple of 2 bar MAP sensors to Alpha when they were first looking into going to the 2 Bar MAP setup to help them out and we shared with them how we were making them work in the intake manifolds. If they are still making them how we showed them, they should not have any issues with the MAP sensors popping out since we have been doing the 2 bar MAP sensor in all supercharged kits since 2007 and have never had any issues with one popping out.
    Like @rabtech said though, without seeing the engine it is really hard to know what happened. If I had to guess though, the first thing I would look at would be the fuel injectors. The other Alpha supercharger kit that blew an engine in Arizona a couple weeks ago had a bad set of fuel injectors that caused the engine to run lean and blow up. Right now, that is what I would guess happened here also since that would make more sense than the MAP sensor just popping out. Hopefully we will find out though to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else and everyone can just be out enjoying boost :)


    Dave


    Thanks for the responses Bobby and Dave! Hopefully the autopsy will reveal some definitive answers. My thoughts were that for whatever reason more boost pressure was created than could be handled and that the MAP sensor was blown out as one of the weakest points, but just wasn't enough pressure relief to keep the motor from popping. I picture the MAP sensor being blown out and the motor popping within fractions of a second of each other...


    It sucks majorly, but shit happens... it's how we learn and move forward. It does make me wonder though, how many boosted Slingers ran out to their slings to immediately check for proper seatment of their MAP sensors!!

    Quote from rabtech

    What I can tell you is this. Get you some type of device that will drop boost as soon as the AFR values go lean. And if you get an engine from DDM it will be as tough as LAVA soap. I have witnessed my engine make 2 full days of rev limiter hitting 17 to 18 PSI of boost dyno pulls over and over.


    A blower can't overboost as it's a mechanical drive (pulley size) that sets boost, on the flip side you also can't have any type of boost cut with a blower. Unless you were to add an electronic solenoid using a standalone ECU, controlling the BOV/DV would be the only way to do so. I hate blowers with a passion, if the car didn't come with a blower, it shouldn't have one. I've seen too many Vipers and Vette's through my shop days yanking off pinned dampeners and blasting front crank bearings because of belt tension. The Ecotec is junk to start and surely not a motor I would consider pulling on the crank to spin a blower. And a centrifugal blower at that. If you aren't hitting redline you aren't getting full boost from that blower, who does regular pulls to redline? Surely not something easily useable on the street @Dave@DDMWorks No idea how you guys have had luck with blowers on these engines and no dampener or crank issues, Props to you. I understand a turbo setup takes a little more to install but they are better in every aspect over a centrifugal blower, twin screw to be argued. Absolutely nothing to gain with this blower setup over a basic turbo setup that has low end torque and power where it's actually useable without reving to the moon just to find a few lbs of boost. Boost cut and all those things are easily applicable as well with a turbo setup. Anyways just my 2 cents, very shitty situation no doubt. Just as you start to have fun it comes halting to an end, welcome to tuning cars!


    -Shawn-

    Sooo, I guess I'll post this here. I've been getting some sort of intermittent code every time I push it to close to redline. Mostly while pushing it In 4th to 6k, but occasionally on takeoffs messing around with asphalt painting. It will generally go away, but this one seems more permanent. Last time I had this type of code (won't go away) reseating a connector solved it. I haven't poped the hood yet, but just wondering since you all are discussing loose connectors. The latest code is a 0 108 with a 4 at the bottom. So is this a pressure above normal, or low voltage on the intake pressure sensor?
    Engine runs fine and boost lean/rich mixture normal. Just these damned reoccurring codes are beginning to annoy me. Thanks for the feedback.

    Quote from jorgebri60

    Sooo, I guess I'll post this here. I've been getting some sort of intermittent code every time I push it to close to redline. Mostly while pushing it In 4th to 6k, but occasionally on takeoffs messing around with asphalt painting. It will generally go away, but this one seems more permanent. Last time I had this type of code (won't go away) reseating a connector solved it. I haven't poped the hood yet, but just wondering since you all are discussing loose connectors. The latest code is a 0 108 with a 4 at the bottom. So is this a pressure above normal, or low voltage on the intake pressure sensor?
    Engine runs fine and boost lean/rich mixture normal. Just these damned reoccurring codes are beginning to annoy me. Thanks for the feedback.


    106 looks to be an intake air pressure sensor


    sent from the Bader Badger, FAST red slingshot

    Quote from Dave@DDMWorks

    There have been 2 with the Alpha Supercharger that we are aware of, 1 out in Arizona caused by a set of bad fuel injectors and @jaytee whose failure is unknown right now.

    That's spooky...how many Alpha SCs can possibly be out there? Doesn't sound like a good percentage. I was under the assumption that the SC would be safer as far as engine damage concerned than turbo but I guess that logic needs some re-evaluation.