What I have seen is these conversations are hard or/and uncomfortable because many people do NOT like having these conversations. When it does not effect someone... it's hard for them to understand - women's rights movements in the past have been hard to discuss, civil rights movements... again hard to talk about. BUT WE must have these uncomfortable conversations with America!
NFL: "We're not protesting the anthem, we're protesting racism and bad cops". My inner veteran: "BULLSHIT! If that's true, you're doing it wrong".
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My biggest questions through all of the following:
1. What is more important and why...the Constitution (which Veterans and current military take and oath to defend from all domestic and foreign enemies) or the flag? From what I have seen a lot of on social media...there is a huge conflict and people are essentially attacking each other for this specific question...even though the original issue is now long lost because of this argument. I have actually lost friends on Facebook from the Slingshot family over this, which I find ridiculous.
2. Where is the solution? Solution for the inequality, solutions for what gets the message out.
3. Why does something like this have to be the reason people start caring? Out vets are left homeless and with out medical treatment daily but we don't give a crap. Our kids values aren't questioned when it comes to things the president says, but when it comes to kneeling in public it's a major issue (both being childish public displays of people in positions that can influence our kids).
4. Why is sports the catalyst...more specifically the nfl? The WNBA protested during the first game of the WNBA finals and the LA Spark stayed in the locker room during the anthem, but no mention of it.
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Now it's been a few days in on this. I am seeing and hearing many discussions - not just here but all around. It's hard, it's challenging and it hits many of us emotionally. But I truly believe if we can have discussion civilly these type issues we will never grow as people and communities. Keep asking questions and keep an open mind - YES ITS UNCOMFORTABLE to talk about... but what else can we do - we talk, discuss and LISTEN to what the other persons view point.
Constructive conflict... It's needed rather than avoiding it... Agree with you sir!
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If these player want to show support for the issue then they should really go all in. Taking a knee during the Anthem does not cost them a thing. They can mindless follow a trend and get lost in the crowd. If they really want to change peoples and create unity then build the bridge, net set it on fire. If you disrespect one of our nations most revered symbols, you are trying to tear down, not build. Show your real values, refuse to play. That would mean more to the public. Slapping the people in the face and disrespecting their values (kneeling or sitting) is only going to divide us. Making a sacrifice (not playing and loosing the income) would show that you are committed. This would gather more people together. Go out into your communities and take your cash with you, build community centers, health clinics and job training centers to help those in need. That will draw people to your side. Look at JJ Watt, his help in Houston is over the top and no one is offended.
My father always said "to show commitment, put your money where your mouth is!"
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If you want to see things change, have all team owners and/or the NFL mandate that all players must stand during the National Anthem. Nobody is taking away their rights. They're just being held to the same thing everyone else is - while you're at work, you DO your job.
Then let them take their Monday "off day" to protest all they want. I'm sure after missing one day of their family time, that will meet a timely death. Come on NFL, you fine players for taunting other players, for touch down celebrating, not having their socks pulled up etc, but God forbid you make them RESPECT and HONOR the flag while being PAID TO DO SO
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This whole kneeling thing is taking off!! It's the latest "in" thing to do!!
SO I'M CASHING IN!!!
I have been in meetings over the last 3 days with my business lawyers, and the owners of the trade marked "Calvin Klein Jeans" Remember them?? I have developed and have a patent pending on "Official Protest Jeans" They are taking off!! The Kardoucheian sisters have pre-ordered over 60 pairs!! It's a simple idea I came up with! These jeans have built in knee pads!!! Yup, they were offered in the 80's briefly as a
"work jean" that was popular with hookers. I have given them rebirth!!!
I'm trying them out today!! Got mine on, and going to McDonald's!! I'm taking a knee, in protest that the McRib should be FULLTIME on the menu! Then, heading to SONIC to take a knee, in protest that "fiddy cent" corn dogs should be FULLTIME on their menu!
Then, I'm Skyping @slingmods so they can see me take a knee in protest that they proceed with my idea of a "KOOM-BUY-YAH" sale of 25% off EVERYTHING!!
I'M GONNA BE RICH!!!
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@KZ1
Many of these football players have donated millions of dollars to communities that they grew up in. Many of them have foundations that we do not hear about because we are not in there neighborhoods... these neighborhoods we drive by daily and never give any thoughts. These foundations have benefited communities.... just like many baseball players and hockey players etc. have incredible fundraiser and outstanding foundations. Here is my point - it's NOT about the amount of money they make ... we just don't always hear of these good news contributions - it doesn't make the juicy news feed. Instead we hear negative news stories way so often ... we just don't hear about everything sports, athletes and entertainers do. Again keeping an open mind! -
@KZ1
Many of these football players have donated millions of dollars to communities that they grew up in. Many of them have foundations that we do not hear about because we are not in there neighborhoods... these neighborhoods we drive by daily and never give any thoughts. These foundations have benefited communities.... just like many baseball players and hockey players etc. have incredible fundraiser and outstanding foundations. Here is my point - it's NOT about the amount of money they make ... we just don't always hear of these good news contributions - it doesn't make the juicy news feed. Instead we hear negative news stories way so often ... we just don't hear about everything sports, athletes and entertainers do. Again keeping an open mind!We hear many times of the good but in order to make other people feel better they focus on the negative things that people are doing. Let's not focus on the community service that I have done on my own time let's focus on the fact that I have tattoos, piercings, and am married to a beautiful black woman. Take the news for instance they seldom report on the positive acts of people in the community but they spend hours, days, and (I'm sure in the case of the kneeling) weeks on the things that negatively impact the community and world. I don't watch the news,sports, and seldom watch TV. I may turn it on but usually just for background noise.
Sent from my iPad using Polaris Slingshot Forum mobile app
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Display MoreThis whole kneeling thing is taking off!! It's the latest "in" thing to do!!
SO I'M CASHING IN!!!
I have been in meetings over the last 3 days with my business lawyers, and the owners of the trade marked "Calvin Klein Jeans" Remember them?? I have developed and have a patent pending on "Official Protest Jeans" They are taking off!! The Kardoucheian sisters have pre-ordered over 60 pairs!! It's a simple idea I came up with! These jeans have built in knee pads!!! Yup, they were offered in the 80's briefly as a
"work jean" that was popular with hookers. I have given them rebirth!!!
I'm trying them out today!! Got mine on, and going to McDonald's!! I'm taking a knee, in protest that the McRib should be FULLTIME on the menu! Then, heading to SONIC to take a knee, in protest that "fiddy cent" corn dogs should be FULLTIME on their menu!
Then, I'm Skyping @slingmods so they can see me take a knee in protest that they proceed with my idea of a "KOOM-BUY-YAH" sale of 25% off EVERYTHING!!
I'M GONNA BE RICH!!!
I didn't realize Connecticut has legalized recreational marijuana
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If you want to see things change, have all team owners and/or the NFL mandate that all players must stand during the National Anthem. Nobody is taking away their rights. They're just being held to the same thing everyone else is - while you're at work, you DO your job.
Then let them take their Monday "off day" to protest all they want. I'm sure after missing one day of their family time, that will meet a timely death. Come on NFL, you fine players for taunting other players, for touch down celebrating, not having their socks pulled up etc, but God forbid you make them RESPECT and HONOR the flag while being PAID TO DO SO
I think this is where there is a little confusion. The NFL is a private company that makes up it's own rules for players and owners. They have a union and use a collective bargaining process between all entities to create what rules are fair for all. They can't mandate anything. They have set rules of what is expected at the time of the anthem now. That both teams must be present. This is why the Seahawks, the Steelers, and I believe one other team is probably going to face a fine of some sort. As far as player conduct on the field at the time, nothing is stated...regardless of what people have been sharing on social media. These rules are the set guidelines and contract between the organization and players. If it were to change, it would change when it's time for a new Collective bargaining agreement to be put in place. So as far as the players and owners are concerned...by the rules placed in front of them...they are in fact...doing their job.
Don't get me wrong. I stand, I show my respect. But that is because it is my personal choice. Taking that choice away doesn't make it better...in fact...it makes it worse. Case in point...Trump said what he said and here we are...people getting pissed off over things that have nothing to do with how the protests started.
People want to say "Put your money where your mouth is...", in the case of a guy like Kapernick...he has. He has put up just under $1 million towards social injustice. Not sure what more you could ask from a guy that doesn't have a job.
I read some things this past week that really put things in perspective:
First one I saw was "The largest collection of people that have been upset by this are people that didn't serve in the military". I don't know how accurate that is, but based on what I have seen on social media...it seems pretty spot on.
Second: "I have not seen one black person upset by the kneeling." I can tell you that I have seen a few online posts and videos by black men on social media...so I know this is incorrect...but as an overall feel of what is on social media...there is a huge discrepancy when it comes to race. Which in itself speaks volumes.
Third...and The one that I have shared and has probably had the most impact: "If people gave a f*** about the treatment of vets when they come home as much as they give a f*** about when people stand, maybe we'd actually make a difference in people's lives. But instead keep wasting time and energy over this bullsh** while men and women who fought for this right to do both actions keeps blowing their heads off." This came from a veteran. It has nothing to do with why the protest started, but it is how the protest is viewed now. And that should put things in to perspective.
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It matters not the opinion of the majority, the minority, yours, or mine... the eyes and ears of the young take it all in.
And what they learn today, is what comes tomorrow...
What should we teach them today?
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What should we teach them today?
This is also a big part of the division of our country. And one of the big questions I have out of all of this...why is the flag more important than the Constitution? Or vice versa. One is the symbol of our country, the other is the doctrine and first rules that were set up for our country. Why is one side more right than the other? Or are they?
The question you ask has a lot more to it than just a simple lesson.
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I'm with @Zorasmiles on this. I dipped my toe in the deep end and found out I don't like to be over my head so I'm going to offer this, then go back to Slingshot related info and stick with that.
With all this discussion and concern, has anyone just considered taking away the stage? Is it really necessary to play our anthem at a sporting event? If it is going to create this level of controversy, just stop doing it. Anyone with a legitimate gripe about whatever they're griping about can go find a new outlet. This may sound unpatriotic but I'm pretty sure football is still just a game. Get over it!
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The anthem has been played at NFL games since 1945
NFL commissioner Elmer Layden said, "The playing of the national anthem should be as much a part of every game as the kickoff. We must not drop it simply because the war is over. We should never forget what it stands for."
In 2009, NFL players began standing on the field for the national anthem before the start of primetime games. Before this, players would stay in their locker rooms except during the Super Bowl and after 9/11.
Maybe this is on the NFL to figure out how they want to present their league while providing the opportunity for the players to engage in social issues and dialogue.
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I'm with @Zorasmiles on this. I dipped my toe in the deep end and found out I don't like to be over my head so I'm going to offer this, then go back to Slingshot related info and stick with that.
With all this discussion and concern, has anyone just considered taking away the stage? Is it really necessary to play our anthem at a sporting event? If it is going to create this level of controversy, just stop doing it. Anyone with a legitimate gripe about whatever they're griping about can go find a new outlet. This may sound unpatriotic but I'm pretty sure football is still just a game. Get over it!
The really means that the DoD has to get out of the NFL. For a good stretch from 2009 and on the DoD paid millions of dollars to teams to put on the patriotic shows we have all gotten accustomed to seeing. Essentially, "paying for patriotism". In 2016, the NFL refunded just over $700K and after the department of defense prohibited pay outs for patriotic ceremonies. I guess in a way, you could say the spending worked. At this point...the patriotic feel of football is so engrained in to the NFL, that it just feels natural.
It really would be interesting to see how removing the Anthem from sports would impact things.
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I love me some Ronnie Mac..........
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Maybe this is more reason to quit watching ESPN now? Now we all miss out on the national anthem?
ESPN will not broadcast the national anthem portion of the Monday Night Football telecast between the Chiefs and Redskins.
RNJ12
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^^^^
That makes sense.... no sponsors for the national anthem.... no money, no show.
