Hugger fender info

  • In the thread about swing arm failure. Swing arm failure


    The video clearly shows the wall thickness of the swing arm. Also notice it just happened to crack right beside the factory bolt hole. So what do you think happened and why that particular spot. My concerns are very valid. Not trying to cause problems. Just want to not weaken the swing arm more than they already are

    Last attempt to help you. Before @Tripod posted he was done, I had PM'd him saying I was done trying to help you. I will break what I said to him, and explain this as well as I can, and be as being nice as I can. Trust me, this is not easy for me, but I am genuinely attempting to help you. Your response or reply will determine if I ever attempt this again.


    The video you reference shows the old swing arm. It had issues, thus was recalled in full (All Slingshots) for said reasons. Since it is not the current swing arm, it isn't a valid point. I don't give a flip what it cracked near. I am the lead tooling design engineer at a prototype and low production run foundry, and we work in both iron and aluminum, but aluminum is our "niche". The crack happened at the "swirl" area of the pour. This is a sand cast part. They set the gating that feeds the casting in the wrong place, it's a guessing game until proven right or wrong at this point in the process. This swing arm was not set up for high production. Polaris only expected to sell around 2,000 units a year originally. Mine, built after only 18 months of production, was number 16,870. That's over 8 times what they projected. The location they used causes dirt from the sand cast to swirl in the corners or trapped areas. That is the reason for the weak point. The drilled hole has very little to do with this.... and I can't even begin to tell you how little. The weakened casting from the dirt or sand is so much more an issue. END OF STORY.


    You fix things (at least that's what you state) that are broken. I engineer them to not break. Without a doubt, I know what caused this break, and it had nothing to to with the location of a drilled hole. I'm really trying here... accept my help, of be considered a troll by me at this point. I don't question what happened, I am sure of it.


    Your move... determines mine. Just saying.

  • We drilled the original swing arm... 8|
    We followed (ok, ok, I say we but I mean More like a 100%/100% install/gopher type labor arrangement) the video off youtube because, you are correct, it arrived fully shipped without installation instructions, but by word of mouth, we learned Metricks fender install instructions was in fact a youtube video.. :|
    But it is pretty thoroughly explained.
    We didnt have any issues with our swingarm.. no cracks or depressions...
    But drilling into that swingarm and trying to eyeball and twist into a pretzel and stay at a perfect 90 degree angle.... X/ I admit it... I was scared.. it stayed on a full year, no problems, cracks, or loose fender... i love that fender btw. It completes the sawed off rearend :thumbsup:


    It took us several hours first go around... after the recall, that fender was back in place in less than an hour. Much easier second time. :D

    All statements, posts, and general discussions made on this forum by me purposely reflect my opinions and personal experiences. 8)

  • First of all, I'm not trying to be a know-it-all or to come off that way...I'm constantly reading and learning and that goes for this forum too. That said...I apologize if I come of that way...I'm not a beat around the bush kinda guy.....I'm not the worlds best one finger typer ..so I get to the point with out all the mish mush...I have thanked many people here...and will continue to do so... I ask questions to learn...I question some answers because I might not understand them. Or need more information ...


    I'm as concerned about our collective personal safety as anyone....hence the debate about the harnesses...and weakening the swing arm or any other number of things.. A debate isn't necessarily an argument....especially when we're typing annonomusly and not face to face to hear and see facial expressions or vocal intonations..


    I'm more than willing to bet that if your, mine or anyone's swing arm cracks where that hole is drilled...Polaris won't cover it...and if it causes an accident with injuries some slick lawyer will hang your butt because you YOU/ me or anyone modified the swing arm. That said I'm still going to mount my fender with that hole .....keeping in mind any liability for it will fall squarely on me.. I'd feel a lot better if the swing arm was steel...


    I've welded on everything you can name in a steel mill from the furnaces to the hot metal cranes and seen many mechanical/structural failures. It was my responsibility to make sure it was fixed the correct way and I was personally responsible for every weld I made. If something happened and people got hurt my butt/job was on the line....


    These guys that run super big tires on their pickup trucks and don't upgrade the brakes to handle the extra weight have been sued after the accident for making changes the manufacturers don't condone....it's probably in the Polaris fine print somewhere..


    I'm just trying to point out that in my opinion from my welding background, drilling that hole is compromising the strength of the swing arm to some extent. Which has probably been heat treated/annealed/stress relieved to give it the strength it has....and as we saw in the video the swing arm failed right beside the factory drilled hole...that guy was lucky to get it in the parking lot without anything major happening.


    That said someone just mentioned they saw two factory back wheels break....if you look at the wheel offset and see where the spokes are and how skinny they are where they connect and see all the weight and stress put on them because of the offset...continuously burning rubber and drifting and hitting potholes or making sharp high speed turns is asking for a wheel failure. Which is connected to the swing arm. Aluminum is strong but it has its limits.


    I see you are trying to engineer out all of the weak points in your products....that said everything in our mill was abused not just used...and everything that broke was engineered to be strong....but at some point everything fails when it's over stressed. Since Polaris supposedly has never conducted crash tests front or rear there are still probably many things that are being over stressed and will be subject to failure. I'm glad they keep improving and making necessary recalls to address such issues...

  • I think those are very valid points and concerns.. mechanical failures... Steve and I both seen what happens when a overhead crane fails.. while holding a 70 ton mold 2 stories in the air...cable rated for twice the cranes lift capacity frayed and broke, and it fell thru an injection mold machine, and partially thru 6 feet of concrete... with human beings standing at the machine... yes, it happens. That was very upsetting. Steve and i were sitting on break close to a city block away and thought it was thunder...
    So I do see your points.... but prototypes, and first production runs... thats when they SHOULD have all the kinks ironed out. With alot of the members having this mod installed for some time now... i think we can all agree any issues with the swingarms, is not caused by the fender being drilled thru and installed.


    And yes, without being in person, sometimes people READ the words differently than they were meant. :thumbsup:


    But you can trust these "OG's" ( I think that means original group? Original guys? Old guys? Lol ) to give you an honest and informative answer... dont ask me though... i dunno... I can make sandwiches and hand tools off... :D

    All statements, posts, and general discussions made on this forum by me purposely reflect my opinions and personal experiences. 8)

  • Seriously Dude?! You thought it was solid? Even after participating in the 'recall on the recall' thread? Yeah, right. If it was solid & they wanted you to drill all the way through, they would have to include an 18 inch drill bit!!!!! Your self-justification makes zero sense. You constantly & consistently post & ask for advice & then proceed to shoot down that advice or totally ignore it. Why bother asking in the first place since you seem to already know everything?! I, for one, will no longer waste my time attempting to assist you.

    Actually I'm surprised that it's hollow...considering what it does I would have bet money on it being cast solid and the bearing and axle holes just machined out ...a solid piece of aluminum makes much more sense to me.

  • I paid $405 for the fender...it's really nice Fiberglas the gel coat outside is nice and smooth and it looks like the fender brackets are molded in stainless steel about $150 or so in paint and supplies. $50 in drill bit and taps...no license plate relocation stuff. Just the fender mounting brackets and bolts.

  • Heres my guess as to why its not solid...
    If ever you have your slingshot up on a lift, go to the rear and see if you can pick it up... you can, I can... 8| the heavy weight is up front. And center of gravity is in line with windshield/steering wheel. Polaris had to keep it under 1750 lbs out the door.. The hollow cast is still at least and inch thick casting, it has to be engineered and approved with a rating to support the applied weight and force it withstands. Big money Auto makers have to play by regulations also... they made it strong enough to support the super light rearend... well, when the cast works as designed to..

    All statements, posts, and general discussions made on this forum by me purposely reflect my opinions and personal experiences. 8)

  • I paid $405 for the fender...it's really nice Fiberglas the gel coat outside is nice and smooth and it looks like the fender brackets are molded in stainless steel about $150 or so in paint and supplies. $50 in drill bit and taps...no license plate relocation stuff. Just the fender mounting brackets and bolts.

    I hope you held a gun to their head for thst price! Sounds like you stole it! :D
    Cant qoute the vendors price but im sure it was double that.

    All statements, posts, and general discussions made on this forum by me purposely reflect my opinions and personal experiences. 8)

  • never learned how to use or work ebay...never purchased anything there... its a false sense of security im looking for when i buy online... buying from a guy who sells stuff while possibly in his boxers at the kitchen table... i dont know man... kinda feels like craigslist... never bought anything off there either. I feel more secure knowing somebody has to wear a suit where i make my purchase.. :/
    i amazon or go directly to site...

    All statements, posts, and general discussions made on this forum by me purposely reflect my opinions and personal experiences. 8)

  • Ebay is not bad, generally speaking. One needs to look at seller's feedback, and how many items have been sold. I've been selling and (Mostly) buying on there for 17 years, and I'm a premier seller. I've gotten burned a couple times, but nothing major and it was early on while I was still learning the ropes of it. Some great deals are there, and it's most likely safer than Craigslist (which I also buy from occasionally) since you don't meet the person somewhere. @Guardian_Angel or @airoutlaw if you ever want to get into Ebay, I'd be happy to help you with what I know about it.


    As for @Bigdog, respect if you actually typed out that book above with one finger! I too, realize that people can come across in messages and posts unlike what the writer intended. I do try to be very careful how I word things, as I've even had texts misinterpreted from my original intent. There are times that one can type out something meaning it very general or laid back, but it be read as a personal attack on the other end.


    As for the swing arm being solid or steel. I would rather it was steel myself. In this case, with what it is designed to do, I think a tube steel design could be not only stronger, but not add much weight if any. That would be my first and best choice. As for solid aluminum, that is just not feasible for many reasons. First off, it would be much heavier than a tube steel design, and they are trying to keep the weight down. Secondly, it would need to be made of billet, which would mean it would be not only very expensive, but also take a large amount of machining to get the final part. Thousands would be added to the bottom line, which would be passed on to us. There is no way of die casting or sand casting a part this large solid. As the aluminum cools from it's pouring temperature (usually around 1400 degrees) it shrinks. If you know the shrink area, you can rig and gate an area close to it to stay hotter, and the hotter pool will feed the area that shrinks. That only works in limited areas, up to an inch or so thick. These swing arms, if solid and poured, would likely snap in a short amount of time of hitting normal potholes.


    What I would like to see them do with the swing arm is this. Instead of a hollow core, have a rib that runs from the front to the rear of the core, with cross hatched ribs supporting it. It would allow pockets inside to be hollow, but still connect the inside of the swing arm to be solid in places. That would make the swing arms virtually indestructible for the intended use, without adding much weight at all. Probably 20 pounds if not less would be added. In doing that, it would actually be stronger than a tube steel design that was similar weight.


    But hey, I didn't build it. Yet anyway. I've considered building not only this, but also a replacement angle drive that is both quiet and reliable. The numbers just aren't there yet. To get the cost down, it would have to sell at least 5000 units or it would be too expensive.... even then it would not be a cheap unit. But it would be reliable, and the swing arm would be designed with different bearings that would not be prone to fail.

  • Ebay is not bad, generally speaking. One needs to look at seller's feedback, and how many items have been sold. I've been selling and (Mostly) buying on there for 17 years, and I'm a premier seller. I've gotten burned a couple times, but nothing major and it was early on while I was still learning the ropes of it. Some great deals are there, and it's most likely safer than Craigslist (which I also buy from occasionally) since you don't meet the person somewhere. @Guardian_Angel or @airoutlaw if you ever want to get into Ebay, I'd be happy to help you with what I know about it.



    As for the swing arm being solid or steel. I would rather it was steel myself. In this case, with what it is designed to do, I think a tube steel design could be not only stronger, but not add much weight if any. That would be my first and best choice.

    I believe Bullet Speed has one that is tube and works well. Since its not mass produced though it is a little pricey.

  • @dangerdarrell, they only made a few and stopped. I was actually looking to get one after I saw a picture of it and liked the design. Someone on here posted about it not being available any longer. I just looked at Slingmods, SlingshotOnly, and eBay with no results. I finally went to Bullet Speed's site, and they only show the quad kit for that area of the SS. Of course they have the Speed tops, and gas caps, axle nut covers, hood inserts and other things, but no swing arms. That quad kits looks to be put together right, but that has to be VERY pricey!!