The SlingShot and the EPA

Quote from billythekidd

As for trucks...Tesla is in the same boat for now... They use Fords for their maintenance fleet...

Yup, like I said, the tech just isn't there yet. I'm not sold on becoming married to an EV yet by any means but the ones I have driven have been great. I think a lot of the negativity towards them comes from not experiencing one first had for any extended length of time. It's definitely nice not ever having to go to the gas station to fill up when you fill up each night at home. The chances of ever having to replace your brake pads, rotors, or calipers is unlikely since the electric motors do probably 95% of the braking using the regenerative charging feature as you decelerate with only needing to actually use the brakes to come to a complete stop. There's no rusty exhaust to replace, no cats that wear out, no oil to change, no coolant to change. Your general maintenance is almost completely eliminated. So while it is definitely a larger investment up front, you're not paying for any of the normal wear and tear maintenance items down the road as you would with a combustion engine car. They're still out of my budget range and I'm not ready to fully adopt to electric as there are still bugs to work out but so far my experiences with them have been positive. But for now, I'll stick to my Slingshot and twin turbo truck until the tech improves and costs come down.

Quote from Kyle D

You're never at a charging station for 40min. The car routes you past chargers like you would look for a gas station so on the route, you're usually about the same amount of time it would take you and another person to fill your tank full of fuel and use the restroom. Now if you skip one of the suggested charging points, then you could sit for 40min. The superchargers can pump in 200mi of range in 15min. Your thinking about there being 10s of millions on the road and not being able to get near a charger is a bit flawed. You can charge at home or most hotels over night which all do because none of the companies have a charging infrastructure like Tesla but for argument sake let's just pretend you cannot and you HAVE to use charging stations. Currently there are over 100k charging stations in the US. The ONLY time I've ever had to wait for a charger was in CA and the wait was 5min. There are already roughly 50 million EVs globally with China having nearly half of them followed by EU with a little over 25% and the US having about 20%. So by that math, the US already has roughly 10 million EVs on the road with no shortage of options for charging.

Thanks for all the info... This is very informative.... I have a question... (laughs , I know) When it is really hot out does the AC diminish the distance the vehicle can drive or the heater in the winter? This summer I went to Flagstaff and was wondering about that trip as going through the Rez there were no charging stations that I saw.

I understand that all this is in its infancy but would like to know if it is worth it for me to look at this tech. Also, you mention charging overnight at home... What is the cost associated with that compared to filling the tank once a week or so?

I read an article that said over the life of the vehicle they produce about half the greenhouse gases that a regular vehicle does... (they did not mention if that was time based or mileage based) With the most of the EV emissions coming from production while most of the regular emissions came from driving.... it was an interesting article.

Quote from billythekidd

Thanks for all the info... This is very informative.... I have a question... (laughs , I know) When it is really hot out does the AC diminish the distance the vehicle can drive or the heater in the winter? This summer I went to Flagstaff and was wondering about that trip as going through the Rez there were no charging stations that I saw.

I understand that all this is in its infancy but would like to know if it is worth it for me to look at this tech. Also, you mention charging overnight at home... What is the cost associated with that compared to filling the tank once a week or so?

I read an article that said over the life of the vehicle they produce about half the greenhouse gases that a regular vehicle does... (they did not mention if that was time based or mileage based) With the most of the EV emissions coming from production while most of the regular emissions came from driving.... it was an interesting article.

That's a solid question. The AC in the summer doesn't reduce range by any substantial margin but yes the more systems that are online the more energy you are consuming. The mileage is slightly decreased more so in the winter from all of the heating systems being used to heat the cabin, the seats, the steering wheel, the mirrors, and the batteries. In regards to cost, I went and spoke to the owner of ZZP who's been driving Teslas since 2013 or 2014. He bought a Model S after it had been out for a year and I think they were released in 2012 or 2013 and he gets a new one almost every year which has been cool to watch the car evolve. So costs/savings will vary a bit depending on where you live, what your cost of electricity is and what your cost of fuel is so the numbers I am throwing at you are specific to here in Grand Rapids MI specifically. We pulled up the Tesla app in his phone and it shows he averages about 1000mi/mo. Over the last 31 days he spent $66 in electricity charging his car. 88% of the charging was done at home with the remaining 12% done here at ZZP. The app then looks at the average cost of regular 87 octane fuel locally and shows that he would have spent about $226 in fuel based on his driving so he saved $160 using electric vs gasoline. Obviously, if you have a car that requires premium fuel or diesel the savings would be more.

From articles I've read, once electric cars proliferate the price of electricity will skyrocket. I know this is the way the country is headed but I'm not so sure it's the right dure ton. They better start building nuke plants right now.

Quote from VV11B40

From articles I've read, once electric cars proliferate the price of electricity will skyrocket. I know this is the way the country is headed but I'm not so sure it's the right dure ton. They better start building nuke plants right now.

You may be right. But then we would be in the same position we are in now with record high costs for fuel. The main difference would be there would be a less harmful emissions going into the atmosphere. I'm no green peace nut by any means and it's unlikely we can turn around the damage we as a global population have already done but moving towards electric would slow some of it down which may in turn make a better life for our kids and grand kids.

Quote from Kyle D

You may be right. But then we would be in the same position we are in now with record high costs for fuel. The main difference would be there would be a less harmful emissions going into the atmosphere. I'm no green peace nut by any means and it's unlikely we can turn around the damage we as a global population have already done but moving towards electric would slow some of it down which may in turn make a better life for our kids and grand kids.

And no rain forests left after stripping for the cobalt etc. to build batteries, my experience with batteries, their not too reliable as they age.

Quote from VV11B40

40 minutes to fully charge! NO THANKS.... Wait until there on 10s of millions on the road. You won't be able to get near a charger.

I normally wait until I'm very close to empty to fill my tank. Why? Two reasons. One, gas stations are literally everywhere in and near population centers and two, I figure if I fill up at half a tank, I will spend twice as much of my life at gas stations. I'd rather not. If you multiply my 5 minute fill up by 8 and add a wait time, I could potentially qualify for social security and die in the same 'juice' line. And I'm sure EV drivers do not want to run down to E because of range anxiety. Let someone else have that experience. I'm not even a little bit interested. Sure glad I'm not 20 years old!

Quote from Kyle D

You can charge at home or most hotels over night which all do because none of the companies have a charging infrastructure like Tesla but for argument sake let's just pretend you cannot and you HAVE to use charging stations. Currently there are over 100k charging stations in the US.

And as soon as that is THE source of fuel, the US government will tax the living fuck out of you for it to replace the revenue they squander with no thought of enriching American lives. Hide and watch! You, the taxpaying citizen will not be better off.

Just waiting for the tax on how many miles you drive. Only way to charge electric vehicles to maintain the roads. Remember gas already has a road tax. So comparing prices between gas and electric is somewhat skewed at the moment.

Quote from VV11B40

Just waiting for the tax on how many miles you drive. Only way to charge electric vehicles to maintain the roads. Remember gas already has federal excise tax, state sales tax, county and local taxes including inspection fee taxes, underground tank taxes, road tax and more.. So comparing prices between gas and electric is somewhat skewed at the moment.

Fixed it for ya.

Quote from VV11B40

From articles I've read, once electric cars proliferate the price of electricity will skyrocket. I know this is the way the country is headed but I'm not so sure it's the right dure ton. They better start building nuke plants right now.

As a side note on costs, right now gas taxes, especially here in California, are rather high, they say this is where they get the money to maintain our roads and highways - - - - so what are they going to do as electric and charging at home become the norm???

We all know they are not going to just suck it up with the money they still get from older gas cars

they will find a way - - - - - - - - - and the roads will still suck

They will raise State Renewel Registrations up on EV Vehicles..No one will get away without road taxes...

Quote from harleyujoe

They will raise State Renewel Registrations up on EV Vehicles..No one will get away without road taxes...

knowing those ass holes they will probably raise them on ALL vehicles and the roads will still look like shit!

My son has had his deposit in for years for the Tesla truck.

Quote from VV11B40

Just waiting for the tax on how many miles you drive. Only way to charge electric vehicles to maintain the roads. Remember gas already has a road tax. So comparing prices between gas and electric is somewhat skewed at the moment.

Quote from SlingLow

Fixed it for ya.

i do not think it is all that skewed. Your home electricity has ridiculous taxes added to it just like gasoline. Go look at your last electric bill. Your charged differently for peak and off peak usage and you have other charges like Power supply recovery cost, system access, distribution tax, power plant securitization tax, low income assist fund tax, state sales tax etc.

Quote from Kyle D

i do not think it is all that skewed. Your home electricity has ridiculous taxes added to it just like gasoline. Go look at your last electric bill. Your charged differently for peak and off peak usage and you have other charges like Power supply recovery cost, system access, distribution tax, power plant securitization tax, low income assist fund tax, state sales tax etc.

the problem here is that right now we have all these add ons to what we pay for our electricity and we also have the add ons on each gallon of gasoline - - now we all know damn well that as the governments tax revenue goes down because there are fewer internal combustion vehicles they are not going to simply accept the lower revenues - - - that's never going to happen! they WILL find some other way to make up it and that will most likely will be by adding even more to electric used to charge vehicles

Here in California our electric rates already suck and I dont expect having millions of electric vehicles to make them go any way except for up

Quote from Edward Neal

the problem here is that right now we have all these add ons to what we pay for our electricity and we also have the add ons on each gallon of gasoline - - now we all know damn well that as the governments tax revenue goes down because there are fewer internal combustion vehicles they are not going to simply accept the lower revenues - - - that's never going to happen! they WILL find some other way to make up it and that will most likely will be by adding even more to electric used to charge vehicles

What he said. The electric grid was built over time to include the taxes that make it work. Same with gas taxes. If one goes away there MUST be a replacement tax and it will almost certainly be more. Edward Neal and I are making the same point. As far as electricity cost here in SW Washington, we have it pretty good compared to most.

Quote from Edward Neal

the problem here is that right now we have all these add ons to what we pay for our electricity and we also have the add ons on each gallon of gasoline - - now we all know damn well that as the governments tax revenue goes down because there are fewer internal combustion vehicles they are not going to simply accept the lower revenues - - - that's never going to happen! they WILL find some other way to make up it and that will most likely will be by adding even more to electric used to charge vehicles

Here in California our electric rates already suck and I dont expect having millions of electric vehicles to make them go any way except for up

Quote from SlingLow

What he said. The electric grid was built over time to include the taxes that make it work. Same with gas taxes. If one goes away there MUST be a replacement tax and it will almost certainly be more. Edward Neal and I are making the same point. As far as electricity cost here in SW Washington, we have it pretty good compared to most.

I completely agree with both of you. Uncle Sam is getting his money one way or another whether it's raising the cost of electricity or raising the cost of registration each year or both or both of those and more. They will get theirs. My only point was, unless I misunderstood, the way it was worded sounded like the statement was, electricity isn't taxed like gasoline is so it's not apples to apples. But both have lots of taxes on top of the "cost" of it. I can't speak for any other state but here in MI, I pay more taxes each month in electricity usage than I do on fuel. Taxes on my elec bill last month were $89. I paid about $71 on 90gal of gasoline for the month.

just to make all of you in other states feel good about your electric rates here is what I have to deal with

three tiers - base line = 28 cents per kWh, tier 2 = 36cents per kWh & tier 3 = 46 cents per kWh

these summer days with our highs in the 100's and lows at night in the high 80's to low 90's and the AC running 24/7 my home used 2715 wWh for the month of August - - most of this would be firmly in the top tier at 46 cents and my electric bill would be well over $1,000 - pretty much the same for July and September - - fortunately I have Solar on my roof so I actually generate more per year than I use, but before we had the Solar installed even in our lowest month our monthly electric bill exceeded $350

So now think of this - you add an electric car with a 100 kWh battery that your going to be charging 2 three times a week - - that's another 800 to 1200 kWh per month on your electric bill most of which would probably be at that top tier of 46 cents or $368 to $552 per month

now, just to be clear most homes that are not solar are being switched to time of use plans instead of tiered rate plans like mine. I am not inclined to even try to figure out the costs, but for those interested here are the summer rates per kWh for Californians on the time of use plans - all I can say is that I sure hope they dont need to charge that car between 5pm and 8pm