The SlingShot and the EPA

https://www.roadandtrack.com/c…n-the-epa-comes-knocking/

The EPA, and other groups, are pushing through the industry. Over the last 5ish years or so, their targets were companies that were blatantly removing emissions features in the tuning process and advertising it. Remember the Diesel Brothers? They were fined around $850k violating the clean air act in addition to the nearly $1mil in legal fees. Right now the EPA is really pushing catalytic converters and cracking down on manufacturers of tuning software.

HP Tuners, who manufacturers tuning software, is in the EPA's sights currently. We have been seeing a lot of features in the tuning software "disappearing" and being disabled because of it.

They are also pushing that any vehicle that came with a catalytic converter from the factory must retain them regardless of if you live in a state where there may be no emissions testing. So this basically means if you are a manufacturer produce a down pipe or exhaust for any vehicle, Slingshot, F150, Corvette, Etc and if there is a cat in it from the factory, you must produce it with a catalytic converter.

If a company continues to sell the systems without the cats, they will put an end to it by issuing a hefty fine and halting production to where you can either redesign the system with a cat and start selling it again or stop selling the product all together. For some smaller companies, the fine may be enough to bankrupt them and force them out of business.

While we are not a massive company, we are large enough to get their attention so for quite a while, all down pipes and exhausts were "out of stock" on our website while we redesigned them with high flow cats. They didn't knock on our door but we are staying ahead of regulation and out of their sites. I'm sure there will be push back from some who will say something to the effect that "Cats suck and rob all your power." but we have purchased and in some platforms we support had high flow cats made and through testing, there has not been a loss of power production even in the high horse power builds.

We want the performance and racing industry to stay active and flourish because for so many of the employees here specifically, it's a passion and lifestyle. So as a company, we are choosing to be a part of the solution vs a part of the problem.

Wow!

And I keep thinking I want to own a electric vehicle and wonder if anyone has

thought of making a Electric Slingshot ???

I know at 71 yrs young I am running out of time for these fun vehicles but my heart is still in it..

Like to hear if anyone thinks it is worth a venture ??

Big issue is battery weight since the sling has to stay under 1800lbs. Or has that weight restriction gone away?

Quote from VV11B40

Big issue is battery weight since the sling has to stay under 1800lbs. Or has that weight restriction gone away?

Most of my travels are 100 miles round trip and be interesting to see if someone who knows about

electric vehicles what they could come up with for power and distance on even around 2000 lbs and zero emissions.

[quote='harleyujoe','https://slingshotinfo.com/index.php?thread/10829-the-slingshot-and-the-epa/&postID=375869#post375869']

Quote from VV11B40

Big issue is battery weight since the sling has to stay under 1800lbs. Or has that weight restriction gone away?

Most of my travels are 100 miles round trip and be interesting to see if someone who knows about

electric vehicles what they could come up with for power and distance on even around 2000 lbs and zero emissions.

[/quote]

There was a guy that did it. I THINK there’s a post in here somewhere. It wasn’t anything that could be a production assembly but he did it and it worked and drove under its own power. He’s the only person I’ve seen make it happen. I was impressed.

Electrifying one wouldn’t be too hard. You’d certainly be over the 1800lb weight limit but it’s doable. We had looked at it recently and the easiest way would be to use a quad kit and get the drive train and battery from a Tesla Model 3. You’d have a motor at each rear wheel, run all the wiring through the transmission tunnel, and you’d stack the batteries up front where the engine was. Obviously, easier said than done but it was something we were looking at when one of our drivers had an accident while competing in an autocross event in one of our teslas and we weren’t sure if it was going to be a total loss or not. Selfishly, I was kind of hoping it was so we could electrify a sling. You’d have a sling that makes gobs of power, weighs very little compared to a model 3, and would probably have over 400 miles of range being so much lighter than the model 3.

ZZPerformance, Go Fast Not Broke
EST 2000

Quote from Kyle D

There was a guy that did it. I THINK there’s a post in here somewhere. It wasn’t anything that could be a production assembly but he did it and it worked and drove under its own power. He’s the only person I’ve seen make it happen. I was impressed.

Electrifying one wouldn’t be too hard. You’d certainly be over the 1800lb weight limit but it’s doable. We had looked at it recently and the easiest way would be to use a quad kit and get the drive train and battery from a Tesla Model 3. You’d have a motor at each rear wheel, run all the wiring through the transmission tunnel, and you’d stack the batteries up front where the engine was. Obviously, easier said than done but it was something we were looking at when one of our drivers had an accident while competing in an autocross event in one of our teslas and we weren’t sure if it was going to be a total loss or not. Selfishly, I was kind of hoping it was so we could electrify a sling. You’d have a sling that makes gobs of power, weighs very little compared to a model 3, and would probably have over 400 miles of range being so much lighter than the model 3.

ZZPerformance, Go Fast Not Broke
EST 2000

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Just curious question... going electric... remove the engine and trans and replace with electric motor and trans and battery... would it still be over the 1800lbs....

Quote from billythekidd

Just curious question... going electric... remove the engine and trans and replace with electric motor and trans and battery... would it still be over the 1800lbs....

I was reading about weight and electric vehicles a day or two ago. The article was primarily about the increased wear of the tires due to the weight, but it mentioned that the smallest electric vehicles currently in production are around 400 pounds heavier than their internal combustion counterparts due to the batteries and that the average electric is 750 pounds heavier. - - - - batteries are heavy - - and apparently it really messes with tire life

A few months back I received a detailed on line questioner from Polaris about performance and range expectations of an electric slingshot. Detailed enough to give full values of two electric production slingshots and price ranges offered.

Not my post but found this;

https://www.reddit.com/r/polar…wf/slingshot_allelectric/

[quote='billythekidd','https://slingshotinfo.com/index.php?thread/10829-the-slingshot-and-the-epa/&postID=375875#post375875']

Quote from Kyle D

There was a guy that did it. I THINK there’s a post in here somewhere. It wasn’t anything that could be a production assembly but he did it and it worked and drove under its own power. He’s the only person I’ve seen make it happen. I was impressed.

Electrifying one wouldn’t be too hard. You’d certainly be over the 1800lb weight limit but it’s doable. We had looked at it recently and the easiest way would be to use a quad kit and get the drive train and battery from a Tesla Model 3. You’d have a motor at each rear wheel, run all the wiring through the transmission tunnel, and you’d stack the batteries up front where the engine was. Obviously, easier said than done but it was something we were looking at when one of our drivers had an accident while competing in an autocross event in one of our teslas and we weren’t sure if it was going to be a total loss or not. Selfishly, I was kind of hoping it was so we could electrify a sling. You’d have a sling that makes gobs of power, weighs very little compared to a model 3, and would probably have over 400 miles of range being so much lighter than the model 3.

ZZPerformance, Go Fast Not Broke
EST 2000

Display More

Just curious question... going electric... remove the engine and trans and replace with electric motor and trans and battery... would it still be over the 1800lbs....

[/quote]

There are different batteries available but the extended range battery in our Model 3 was 1000lbs alone. The 2 motors were I believe 100lbs each. You’re already at 1200lbs and you’ll still have all the wiring plus the weight of the “naked” sling. The engine in the sling is only about 300-350lbs, the trans is about 100lbs, and the angle drive is probably around 50lbs and the swing arm about 35-45lbs. So you’re shedding approximately 550lbs and adding about 1200lbs. So using those numbers you’d be around 2500lbs which would be about the same weight as something like a Ford Fiesta, Toyota Prius, or a Mini Cooper.

ZZPerformance, Go Fast Not Broke
EST 2000

I'm gonna hold out going electric vehicle for as long as possible.

My lifestyle requires traveling great distances at times, and towing is sometimes required.

13 hours to Maggie with an enclosed trailer. 8 hour trip up to Machias ME towing ATV's. Plus a boat trailer here and there.

I have a diesel half ton pickup truck that gets almost 32 mpg on the highway.

25 - 28 all around fuel mileage. Thinking about going with the same engine in a Wrangler for Terry.

I think that's fairly "Green" of me.

I know the Ford Lightning is the rage right now. But the range on them is limited.

Then hook up a trailer to it, and you reduce that range drastically.

I am not convinced that all these electric vehicles are "green" at all.

Up here in Brimfield MA, we lost 500 acres of beautiful green forest.

They raped the land of forestry and planted thousands of solar panels.

(The trees they took are recyclable, how bout those panels.....)

Quote from ConnMan

I'm gonna hold out going electric vehicle for as long as possible.

My lifestyle requires traveling great distances at times, and towing is sometimes required.

13 hours to Maggie with an enclosed trailer. 8 hour trip up to Machias ME towing ATV's. Plus a boat trailer here and there.

I have a diesel half ton pickup truck that gets almost 32 mpg on the highway.

25 - 28 all around fuel mileage. Thinking about going with the same engine in a Wrangler for Terry.

I think that's fairly "Green" of me.

I know the Ford Lightning is the rage right now. But the range on them is limited.

Then hook up a trailer to it, and you reduce that range drastically.

I am not convinced that all these electric vehicles are "green" at all.

Up here in Brimfield MA, we lost 500 acres of beautiful green forest.

They raped the land of forestry and planted thousands of solar panels.

(The trees they took are recyclable, how bout those panels.....)

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Reminds me of the old Joni Mitchell song... They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.....

Quote from ConnMan

I'm gonna hold out going electric vehicle for as long as possible.

In regards to what your needs are I do not blame you at all. Electric trucks and towing technology are definitely not there YET. But it's coming and it's coming fast. Based on the rate of battery technology acceleration each year, I would be willing to bet we will have an electric truck or SUV of some sort that will get 400mi towing a payload within the next 5 years. We 4 Teslas at ZZP. Usually when we get a new model, some of us get to drive it for a week to see how we like it. They are absolutely amazing and they get great range. I can go from MI to Chicago (2.5hrs) and still have half the range left, top off and get home and not have to charge for another 1-2 days. You can charge overnight at your house or when you are on road trips, the car will plan out your route and route you right past charging stations so you never run out of juice. It will even tell you how many chargers are there, if any are broke, how many are being used, your wait time if it is full, and your charging time. Charging at a super charger takes 40min max to do a "full" charge. When I top off in Chicago, I charge while I am grabbing a bite to eat so it's not an inconvenience. BUT, I'm in the same boat where I require a truck. If Tesla gets to the point where they get the Cyber truck into production and can get a good range and towing capacity, as fugly as they are, I would get one. The interactive and driving experience and all of the technology in them make them amazing. I'm definitely not opposed to looking at an electric vehicle from another manufacturer but none of them have a national charging infrastructure like Tesla which limits them to some degree.

40 minutes to fully charge! NO THANKS.... Wait until there on 10s of millions on the road. You won't be able to get near a charger.

Quote from Kyle D

In regards to what your needs are I do not blame you at all. Electric trucks and towing technology are definitely not there YET. But it's coming and it's coming fast. Based on the rate of battery technology acceleration each year, I would be willing to bet we will have an electric truck or SUV of some sort that will get 400mi towing a payload within the next 5 years. We 4 Teslas at ZZP. Usually when we get a new model, some of us get to drive it for a week to see how we like it. They are absolutely amazing and they get great range. I can go from MI to Chicago (2.5hrs) and still have half the range left, top off and get home and not have to charge for another 1-2 days. You can charge overnight at your house or when you are on road trips, the car will plan out your route and route you right past charging stations so you never run out of juice. It will even tell you how many chargers are there, if any are broke, how many are being used, your wait time if it is full, and your charging time. Charging at a super charger takes 40min max to do a "full" charge. When I top off in Chicago, I charge while I am grabbing a bite to eat so it's not an inconvenience. BUT, I'm in the same boat where I require a truck. If Tesla gets to the point where they get the Cyber truck into production and can get a good range and towing capacity, as fugly as they are, I would get one. The interactive and driving experience and all of the technology in them make them amazing. I'm definitely not opposed to looking at an electric vehicle from another manufacturer but none of them have a national charging infrastructure like Tesla which limits them to some degree.

As for trucks...Tesla is in the same boat for now... They use Fords for their maintenance fleet...

We know it is coming the EV's and makes for good conversation right now....

I just threw it out there and know I would like have electriic knowing right now I do not..

But then I would get one and say what a pain in the ass it is having one..

I just ordered a Kosynier EV bike from Poland beautiful peice but will not receive it until next year

and so this will be my first electric so called vehicle.. I just purchased electric riding mower and works

beautifully but when those batteries go I will regret ownership of it..LOL

Quote from VV11B40

40 minutes to fully charge! NO THANKS.... Wait until there on 10s of millions on the road. You won't be able to get near a charger.

You're never at a charging station for 40min. The car routes you past chargers like you would look for a gas station so on the route, you're usually about the same amount of time it would take you and another person to fill your tank full of fuel and use the restroom. Now if you skip one of the suggested charging points, then you could sit for 40min. The superchargers can pump in 200mi of range in 15min. Your thinking about there being 10s of millions on the road and not being able to get near a charger is a bit flawed. You can charge at home or most hotels over night which all do because none of the companies have a charging infrastructure like Tesla but for argument sake let's just pretend you cannot and you HAVE to use charging stations. Currently there are over 100k charging stations in the US. The ONLY time I've ever had to wait for a charger was in CA and the wait was 5min. There are already roughly 50 million EVs globally with China having nearly half of them followed by EU with a little over 25% and the US having about 20%. So by that math, the US already has roughly 10 million EVs on the road with no shortage of options for charging.