Ya had me up until you said “moving toward the gunfire”
Seriously, I get what you are saying but jeez that sounds like it would have a horrendous price tag attached to that implementing it in schools all over the US. It is an outstanding concept / kudos for your idea!!
Not sure of the cost, but the protection of schools is going to be a hearty price tag for all of us if some solution is implemented. It will be said at what cost is to much for the safety of our children.
Not sure of the cost, but the protection of schools is going to be a hearty price tag for all of us if some solution is implemented. It will be said at what cost is to much for the safety of our children.
You are correct - I was just thinking that there must be millions more conventional firearms available than of the non lethal variety. I don’t know where that balance is between keepin our kids safe and letting our country go down the crapper crushed under the debt. Seems like every problem the US faces there is no good solution to satisfy enough to move forward. It is a shame with all the taxes we pay we have to settle for gridlock!!
Ok my opinion on the SRO that failed to act during the school shooting. As a retired LEO this chickenshit coward pisses me off. He failed to do his real job of protecting those kids. One of the problems with SRO programs is that those positions are often filled with less than stellar officers. To many spots filled by close go retirement officers. In this case he was an SRO for 25 years. 25 years of not working the street dealing with criminals but high fives and hugs being the students best buddy. It's apparent his long term assignment made him lose his willingness to run to the gunfire. Have lethal force available doesn't help in the hands of the unwilling.
Failure to act and failure to protect are a little different. Although it's not criminal it can be addressed in civil court.
End of rant.
That's good information. I agree with you plus I believe the burden of negligence is in the hands of who entrusted his ability to do his job. The elected Sheriff should be held accountable for his management decisions.
I’m going to pose another question. While not being well versed in assault rifles I am in shotguns. This is a Kel Tec 12 guage
It holds 15 rounds - granted you cannot reload as quickly but loaded with 00 buckshot I firmly believe in a “fish in a bowl situation” could be more deadly and kill more than the AR 15 did in Parkland. God forbid it happens but what we gonna do then - ban shotguns. I believe I am proficient enough with a shotgun I could pull the plug on my duck gun which then holds 8 rounds and do significant damage. My point being it doesn’t matter what type firearm you want to use it can be just as lethal as an AR 15 (save and except Las Vegas shooting) in a mass murder attempt. I just cannot see where more gun control is going to help in any way. When we have all the current laws functioning in the 100% range then we can look at something else. We are once again in the knee jerk reaction to an ongoing problem.
@Bill Martin The KEL-TEC KSG-25 holds 24+1 rounds of 2 3/4 inch 12 Ga. OR 40+1 rounds of the 1 1/2 inch 12 Ga. shells and they are worried about an AR-15
Thanks @FunCycle - that proves my point even more. By the way we saw your state is trying to pass a law to make “sagging pants” a crime. Good for y’all - nobody wants to see that!!a style that is based on prison attire should be banned everywhere - kids got way too much to lead em down the wrong path these days as it is
Thanks @FunCycle - that proves my point even more. By the way we saw your state is trying to pass a law to make “sagging pants” a crime. Good for y’all - nobody wants to see that!!
a style that is based on prison attire should be banned everywhere - kids got way too much to lead em down the wrong path these days as it is
YEP! That is what it looks like around here, it has got to the point that the pants are not even hanging on their ass. They are below.
I'm for passing a law about stupid people. Problem is, you would lock more than half the population up. Guess I'll have to put up with them 
I had this thread on ignore and was cleaning up some stuff and just jumped on to see what was happening. Are you freak'n people kidding me!!!!! Everyone wants to crucify this cop??? I wasn't there and will not judge what he did or did not do! I will not Monday night quarterback this. Would I have done things different? Hell yes,.. but I have training and experience to back it up. About 80% if not more cops in this country would have done the same thing. Now, would I step in front of a bullet for anyone? Hell no, my life is not expendable. If this was a fire and the fire fighter did not go interior, are you going to call them a chicken sh*t? Highly doubt it! Again, it all depends on your training and level of experience. You guys watch way too much TV to think cops are going to go running in and kill the bad guys all the time. Until you've been there and done that,..keep your mouth closed. Someone posted that cops don't have to save or protect people, this is true. I have 4 awards for life saving measures, it's nothing more then a piece of paper to my wife. We do have families too.
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Protocol is to enter and confront .... with 25 years in the position he knew this ....
Watch the video ... he made absolutely no attempt ....
He didn't need to go in guns a blaze'n or stand toe to toe with the shooter but his job was to do something, make some attempt .....
History proves out that had he fired a single round at the shooter, even if from behind cover and not hitting him, fewer might have died simply from redirecting the shooters focus from offence to defense...that was what was expected of him .... he failed ....
.....
I’ve learned a long time ago... you get more done sitting and talking at the table vs. standing and yelling on it!
Growing up they tried teaching us that you get more flies with honey than vinegar. I said, sure but once you tear off their wings, you have their undivided attention.
Now I'm just talking from what my experience is... when I went for the handgun training class, I'll never forget the trainer talking about how bad a shot the police were and can't hit anything they aim at as there isn't constant training in this area (not saying if there is or not, was just something he said). Not saying he said this about all officers, but it was clear what he meant. Then that same week, there were a few news stories about police discharging their hand guns 9 times and only hitting the person twice. I don't have the stories or exact counts, just saying it was WAY more shots fired and only one or two hits. Those bullets went somewhere... and if anyone believes that teachers are going to do any better... I'm just saying that if a police officer who is stressed in a situation can't hit what they are firing at, how is a teacher going to do anywhere close to that. I'm NOT for teachers getting firearms. I'm also in agreement with the argument that if you had a bunch of teachers running around the halls with guns drawn, the police arriving aren't going to know who is the real target. I'll repeat what I said before. This kid could have been caught weeks if not months prior and that is where we need to concentrate our efforts at fixing the issue. Just my 2c.
That would eliminate my very first gun, which I still have- my wonderful little Armalite AR 7- 2.5 #, breaks down and stores in the stock- great little rear sight. Indispensable for back-packing, camping in the great outdoors......I love this weapon!
I've been looking for a nice first gen version most of my adult life. If you ever get tired of it...lol
I’ve learned a long time ago... you get more done sitting and talking at the table vs. standing and yelling on it!
I've heard dancing on it tends to get attention and make progress in certain arenas as well.... 
Are you freak'n people kidding me!!!!! Everyone wants to crucify this cop???
....Now, would I step in front of a bullet for anyone? Hell no, my life is not expendable.
Dean, you know I love you, buddy, so don't take it personally that I have to respectfully disagree with you.
I consider an armed, badged security position different than a "regular" street cop. When my dad was on the street (and after he retired), he and I used to talk all the time about how cops arent there to protect the average citizen day in and day out. There arent enough of them, and that's not their job. So, completely agree with whoever posted that tangent to the discussion ( @Tripod, I think).
However, the person hired as an actual security officer, especially at a school, is imbued with special trust and confidence, or should be. Columbine, and several incidents since, taught us that the first response needs to be aggressive response to the scenario. That's what is being trained to now. Dave Grossman and others have addressed it over and over, as regards school shootings or other "gun free zones." Does that apply to the beat cop responding to a ruckus at Starbucks? Nope. Thats why I was specific when I said my piece, and applied it to THIS scenario.
I will say that Heather got kinda fired up at me last night and went online to find an example of the "contract" that an SRO gets hired under. Nothing in the example about walking into a firefight. So I get it, not everybody agrees. But as I responded earlier, there's a difference between what is written and what is right. If this guy had been working there that long, and was that invested in the school, and had all these relationships with staff and students (which IS in the job description), then aside from the moral obligation of having that job with the badge and the gun, I would think he would be even more motivated to respond.
Speaking of my bride, I want to brag about her here for a moment. She posted this publicly this morning:
"Most of y'all know that I am working on my teaching degree and have been for the last 7 weeks. Which means I was in the classroom for this last school shooting and had to have a discussion with my students the next day to talk about what happened and discuss our own safety plan. I will tell you that there is no more helpless feeling than standing in a room full of kids (high school seniors for me) and not being able to defend them. Maybe that comes from my time in the Navy where, when I was in harms way, I was given something with which to defend myself and those around me. Or maybe it comes from the experience of having a CWP/CC on my person when I am out with my family so that I might defend myself and them should the need arise. Or maybe it comes from the training I have done that attempts to simulate real life situations within a controlled environment. I have, too often probably, wondered how best to keep my students safe should a situation arise, knowing that I am unarmed. I am in the minority of the teachers I know and the ones I have seen in online discussion who wants the opportunity to carry to defend my students. Is it a perfect option? No. Do I understand why most teachers do not want more guns in school, yes. But when I look my kids in the eye and lie to them that we are doing everything we can to keep them safe, it breaks my heart. Please realize that when I am saying this, I do not mean that, should something happen, I leave my room and wander the halls searching for the problem. I am talking about defending my students in the classroom and in the immediate area of that classroom. Yes, the idea of armed teachers perturbs many parents, and rightfully so. But let me have the option of taking the proper training and volunteering to be one of the few that would accept the burden of responsibility. No, not everyone should carry. No, nobody should be forced to carry. But let us volunteer, those that choose to do so."
So proud of you, baby.
I had this thread on ignore and was cleaning up some stuff and just jumped on to see what was happening. Are you freak'n people kidding me!!!!! Everyone wants to crucify this cop??? I wasn't there and will not judge what he did or did not do! I will not Monday night quarterback this. Would I have done things different? Hell yes,.. but I have training and experience to back it up. About 80% if not more cops in this country would have done the same thing. Now, would I step in front of a bullet for anyone? Hell no, my life is not expendable. If this was a fire and the fire fighter did not go interior, are you going to call them a chicken sh*t? Highly doubt it! Again, it all depends on your training and level of experience. You guys watch way too much TV to think cops are going to go running in and kill the bad guys all the time. Until you've been there and done that,..keep your mouth closed. Someone posted that cops don't have to save or protect people, this is true. I have 4 awards for life saving measures, it's nothing more then a piece of paper to my wife. We do have families too.
The job he was paid for was protecting children, he failed to do his job. He had the only tool available to stop the shooter, he didn't miss his target he didn't try to stop it. He knows he fail to do the right thing. Why wasn't it his job to go after the shooter? 28 total years of law enforcement and I never stood back and let other officers do my job because I might get hurt.
There is a hierarchy of life that all the LEOs I know and worked with followed.
1 Innocent persons
2 First Responders (unarmed)
3 First Responders (armed)
4 Bad guy
If the SRO wasn't willing he shouldn't have taken the assignment.
When I was in Vietnam Nam in the USMC we had chicken shits also,some people talk big but when the shit hits the fan that's when you're true metal comes out.
