Conservative Politics & Daily Events Discussion

Quote from SoCal

Bill Martin - hope you are all well at your spot.

Question; Perhaps this is a state issue and not a national one but they do intersect. From an average joe standpoint to what degree can a state or federal government "tell" you what you can and can't do in an "emergency"? I get martial law and its enactment but that was not done here. Americans are very tolerant and forgiving in an emergency but there are limits. We do have a bill of rights. From my standpoint a governor just willy nilly saying "you have to do this now" is dictatorial. Don't legislators have to MAKE LAWS not governors just saying so?

In short - is it legal for a governor to TELL their constituents to do something without the backing of the legislature or a vote or an invoking of a "SPECIAL emergency"? And if they do isn't it for only a limited ( short ) time? Or perhaps governors in different states have different powers but all must adhere to the constitution and bill of rights.

I think you know where I am going here. As in a previous post in another thread I mentioned that 40K people defied a stay at home order and went to the beach with no repercussions. If 40K people went out and robbed banks all in one day needless to say there would be repercussions. Not robbing banks is law - is the stay at home order "law" or a suggestion? So the "stay at home" decree is not law I would assume. But a guideline, a suggestion not truly enforceable.

There is a protest organizer in San Diego that is facing jail time for a protest. While millions of SoCal residents are "out and about" one could say in defiance of the stay at home order. Selective enforcement of the law ( I know it does happen ) should not be the norm. I predict and justifiably so a flurry of law suits coming out of this.

What say you?

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lets add an additional question to this - - if someone violates an order like this and then it is found they transmitted the virus to someone else who ends up dying can that person be held legally liable? - do they potentially open themselves to the risk of law suit or a wrongful death conviction?

as to your question as to what legally can be done I did a quick google and came up with this

Emergency powers change the legal landscape and allow for coordinative efforts among public and private sectors. State governors can allocate resources, tap state funds, make emergency regulations, prohibit price-gouging, and waive or suspend laws impeding effective responses.

from reading that I would say that Newsom is allowed to do the things he has done.

Quote from Edward Neal

lets add an additional question to this - - if someone violates an order like this and then it is found they transmitted the virus to someone else who ends up dying can that person be held legally liable? - do they potentially open themselves to the risk of law suit or a wrongful death conviction?

as to your question as to what legally can be done I did a quick google and came up with this

Emergency powers change the legal landscape and allow for coordinative efforts among public and private sectors. State governors can allocate resources, tap state funds, make emergency regulations, prohibit price-gouging, and waive or suspend laws impeding effective responses.

from reading that I would say that Newsom is allowed to do the things he has done.

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but for how long?

Quote from Edward Neal

lets add an additional question to this - - if someone violates an order like this and then it is found they transmitted the virus to someone else who ends up dying can that person be held legally liable? - do they potentially open themselves to the risk of law suit or a wrongful death conviction?

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Didn't California remove the penalty for having HIV, not telling anyone, then sharing needles or having unprotected sex ...... that would be a benchmark in your state I would think.....

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Quote from Edward Neal

lets add an additional question to this - - if someone violates an order like this and then it is found they transmitted the virus to someone else who ends up dying can that person be held legally liable? - do they potentially open themselves to the risk of law suit or a wrongful death conviction?

as to your question as to what legally can be done I did a quick google and came up with this

Emergency powers change the legal landscape and allow for coordinative efforts among public and private sectors. State governors can allocate resources, tap state funds, make emergency regulations, prohibit price-gouging, and waive or suspend laws impeding effective responses.

from reading that I would say that Newsom is allowed to do the things he has done.

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Pardon me for putting words in your mouth Bill Martin but that’s probably an attorney‘s dream, huge huge gray area totally circumstantial and infinitely unprovable.. but let’s just say😛

Quote from SoCal

but for how long?

Until the order declaring a State emergency is lifted I would imagine - - I guess if the people felt it was not lifted when the emergency were over they could take it to court, but then I would assume they would need proof - - in a situation like this I would think evidence the death rate had significantly dropped would be needed - - not liking it would not be enough I would bet

Quote from Edward Neal

Until the order declaring a State emergency is lifted I would imagine - - I guess if the people felt it was not lifted when the emergency were over they could take it to court, but then I would assume they would need proof - - in a situation like this I would think evidence the death rate had significantly dropped would be needed - - not liking it would not be enough I would bet

Naaaaa there has to be parameters. You can’t just do this and indefinitely.

Quote from Orangeman

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Didn't California remove the penalty for having HIV, not telling anyone, then sharing needles or having unprotected sex ...... that would be a benchmark in your state I would think.....

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not sure that would be a proper benchmark - - This is a declared state of emergency - and as is within his authority the Governor has issued emergency regulations - - - so the question is can a person be held liable for civilly or criminally for damages they cause by violating the emergency regulation?

the issue with HIV is very different - there has not been a declared State emergency over HIV and no emergency order has been given not to share needles or have unprotected sex

Quote from SoCal

Naaaaa there has to be parameters. You can’t just do this and indefinitely.

There are parameters - if nothing is done a declared state of emergency expires in 90 days - - in the case of the declared Covid-19 emergency it was declared on March 4th - if nothing else was done or if not earlier date was stated in the declaration this would expire on June 2 - - it is also fully allowed for the Governor to extend the order at the end of 90 days if deemed necessary.

At this point we have only done 54 days of the first 90 day period - so it would be very early for any type of legal action to try to stop the governor I suspect

As a side note I must admit I find it frightening at how Americans seem to be freaking out after such a short time - - makes me very glad we own guns, cant even imagine what people would do if an EMP from a sunspot took out the grid and shut down the country indefinitely

very scary indeed

Quote from Bill Martin

“make emergency regulations” is the rub IMO. That’s what I believe will have to be hashed out in court. Can a Governor defy your Constitutional Rights under the Emergency Powers Act ?? Freedom of Religion leads the forefront to me. By barring citizens of worshiping however they see fit is clearly a violation of the Constitution. If I were going to attack government on the Emergency Powers Act that is a blatant violation of the Constitution -that would never stand IMO. And even though California is somewhat different with how the law is applied I believe you would have to prove someone willfully and with intent to do harm would have to be proven prior to an indictment for transmitting this virus.

I agree the religion issue will be huge - people have the right to worship, but do they have the right to do so in a way that could spread a known virus? I am sure this will make it to the courts.

As a side note as a Christian I would be deeply concerned with any Pastor or "man of God" that allowed his parishioners to worship in a way that could endanger their health - Any Pastor that would do such a thing in my mind is no man of God and is most probably just wanting to insure the basket gets passed and he gets his money - - - I Love Jesus Christ, but I truly think that the vast majority of organized religion has been corrupted by self serving men - and asking your followers to endanger their lives when it todays world technology makes it totally unnecessary just shines the light that would make me walk away from that church in a heartbeat.

Quote from Edward Neal

I agree the religion issue will be huge - people have the right to worship, but do they have the right to do so in a way that could spread a known virus? I am sure this will make it to the courts.

As a side note as a Christian I would be deeply concerned with any Pastor or "man of God" that allowed his parishioners to worship in a way that could endanger their health - Any Pastor that would do such a thing in my mind is no man of God and is most probably just wanting to insure the basket gets passed and he gets his money - - - I Love Jesus Christ, but I truly think that the vast majority of organized religion has been corrupted by self serving men - and asking your followers to endanger their lives when it todays world technology makes it totally unnecessary just shines the light that would make me walk away from that church in a heartbeat.

well said and true. However unfortunately charlatans have been around for a very long time

Quote from SoCal

well said and true. However unfortunately charlatans have been around for a very long time

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Unfortunately most of them now find politics more lucrative than religion ....

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Quote from SoCal

well said and true. However unfortunately charlatans have been around for a very long time

Well I have been criticized for it by some "Christians" but the focus of my Christianity is on the actual teachings of Christ - - Some might call me a "Red Letter Christian" (which I actually take as a complement) I focus on the actual words spoken by Christ Himself in the bible which of course are usually marked in red. And I believe that God has kept these words and what they say pure

I dont put as much focus on the rest of the New Testament as think it has spent too much time in the control of man - passed through too many generations and manipulated by the Church to fit what they wanted it to fit - up to the intentional exclusion of Gospels that didn't fit the narrative they wanted to sell - As a part of my evidence of this manipulation if you will is the fact that there are Books that appear in the Catholic bible that the Protestant bible does not have - - If all of the Bible is supposed to be the protected word of God then how can one Christian Bible be different from another to the point of excluding entire books??? as I see it this is proof of mans manipulation in his attempt to be in control instead of letting God be in control

Now the Old Testament is a great read, I personally believe it is intended to be taken allegorically as a teaching tool of what was originally the Tora or Jewish Law and it also shows us where we were in our relationship with God and why Christ's coming to give us a New way or Testament was necessary - We need to be able to know where we came from to understand why the change was needed - - and also why we are no longer supposed to follow the old

Yep - hate to say it, and it may piss some people off, but from day one man has been corrupting and twisting religion to control people - and I highly suspect that the vast majority of so called churches are still doing the exact same thing right now today

For me the key is easy - "God is Love" - if it comes from Love it comes from God - - if it does not come from Love is does not come from God - - and if some one wants me to endanger my life coming to a service to be sure he gets my money - - - - - that doesnt look like love to me!

Edit - Ohhhh - also love it when I see people jetting to far away places to "spread the word of God" when there are people right in their own backyard hungry to know God - - - to me its a sure sign that someone is more interested in taking trips and seeing faraway places then actually sharing the love they have for God - - - - - but then again this is the nature of man and it is exactly why we need God

Quote from Bill Martin

As you can tell from our brief discussion in the matter - I can assure you lawyers are salivating right now.....

well - why not - win or loose they will get money

I’m not in favor of giving up any of my “rights”. The orders are a temporary stop gap measure. They are not trying to make any restrictions permanent.... so the idiots crying foul are the exact ones Darwin worried about. (Warning The following is a general statement not aimed at anyone in particular.) Don’t put my life in danger because you want to be stupid....By doing so you are ignoring my rights.

they can’t arrest 40,000 unless you put them in a “camp”. Then you have to worry about a ton of other things like if they get sick and how to feed them.... so there is a catch 22 situation. It doesn’t mean they are ok with everyone acting in a disobedient manner. I don’t care who thinks their rights are being tramped on...grow a set of nuts and act like a mature adult and think about the consequences to others from your actions. It’s time to stick together not every man for themselves...

when I see pictures of groups gathered in public withOut masks and crowded together I’m thinking they are part of the problem, not the solution....so whatever happens to you, you deserve. Survival of the smartest... if you sick....oh well....If you want to blame anyone look in the mirror. People in charge are trying to save you from killing yourself....they are trying to protect the economy and creating a situation of no return...Which isn’t that far away......this is bigger than just keeping you from partying....

Quote from Frankie55

Oh boy here we go again, sexual assault. This will be posted all over the place!

https://www.democracynow.org/2…_joe_biden_sexual_assault

Over a month, Media? Hollywood? Actors? Madonna? Allyssa Milano? The View? #metoo? Politicians? After all its not about politics, everywoman deserves to be believed?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-silent-tara-reade

The hypocrisy of all this is what's sad. I suspect there are congressional Democrats that are throwing up their hands and asking, what do we do now? We don't have anyone else, while the liberal media is looking down at their feet and hoping Americans will simply forget about the issue before November, and I speculate the DNC will have no choice but to support JB, even if only half-heartedly, knowing he'll be crushed in the general election and most likely in the electoral college as well.