Rabtech's Haltech install and other items to make HP

Quote from MACAWS

@oneshot

Hey buddy I for one know how much time you have put into this and appreciate every minute you spent. You gave us a very much needed option that NO ONE ELSE would offer. Perhaps if more tuners had access to the same tools Bob has you would not have had to take on the project.
There are many of us out there that want peak performance and up until now it just wasn't there. I personally have pissed a lot of money down the tube chasing the HP Jennie and on revising tunes.

Competition is key maybe Bob can help some of us on lower budgets with some additional tuning. But it looks like after I solve some of my other issues currently you are holding my best option for success.

Thanks
See Ya Soon

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I got your back my friends .

Now I'm totally confused. I just want my sling to run without the worry of high revs and other little quirks. I had a high rev issue, brought it to the dealer, they fixed it. A month later it was back. Later, I had a brake light issue, they fixed it and plugged it in to fix the high rev, and it got worse. After fixing it once again, it lasted about a month. I still have the high revs and plan to get it fixed with the recall stuff. I just want to ride without worrying when or where it will hang up. Sorry, for the vent, I need a Snickers!

Quote from oneshot

I got your back my friends .

OK everyone don't drop the soap!

Quote from MACAWS

OK everyone don't drop the soap!

Now now , not my style

I'm thinking the only way to get the HP and reliability I'm looking for is going to be this route...

Bob's tune had nothing to do with some of our issues, mine was there before he flashed it and it was there after... I think some of the stock ECM's just have a bug in them that may never be found.

@rabtech what about higher elevations would that be an issue or does haltech have like some type of built in sensor that notices elevation change ?

As @rabtech stated, the ability to get real time data and make changes is key
I know Bob has spent many hours tuning to get where he is now, but there are so many possible configurations with parts from different manufacturers. Stock with CAI, headers, mufflers, turbo, SC, and then extremes in temperature and elevations. My hope is that data can be collected and shared amongst tuners for the betterment of everyone. Shared data with Bob will help him provide better tunes for those that are staying relatively mild and @Dave@DDMWorks and @oneshot can provide better tunes for those chasing the higher HPs.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Polaris Slingshot Info mobile app

Quote from jluna317

@rabtech what about higher elevations would that be an issue or does haltech have like some type of built in sensor that notices elevation change ?

Yes it has a onboard barometric pressure sensor.

Soooo............ @rabtech did I miss your final numbers ? Just curious what the beast ended up at.

It was a lot of fun, but a lot of work this past weekend while @rabtech was here with the great white beast.

It is very interesting where we are at today with the Slingshot and horsepower. When the first turbo kits were coming out, I remember seeing 250HP at the wheel and it was a big deal. Then not that long later and 300HP at the wheel was doing really good. A little over a year later and 300HP at the wheel is almost considered commonplace at this point. Thanks to the work of a lot of people out there, we are seeing north of 400HP at the wheel and I am sure it will just continue to go higher.

I think that everyone so far has brought up some really good points in this thread and @rabtech has documented really well his journey so far for everyone to see. Just a quick recap, as most of you know, he started off with the HAHN turbo and that turbo setup did really pretty well, I think there is an entire thread about just that build. The HAHN kit is not the most high tech setup, but it works and made really good power, especially considering that none of these turbo setups from HAHN or Alpha seem like they were designed from the beginning to be high horsepower setups we have pushed them to be. After putting up really good power numbers with the HAHN kit, it seemed that Alpha wanted to see what their kit could do on the same Slingshot and sent @rabtech a turbo kit. There were some problems that arose with that kit that delayed us getting power numbers on it, but basically the components that were choosen for the Alpha kit are more focused on transient turbo response than ultimate power. That is always a tradeoff with turbos, and on the street, most people like a quicker transient response. Because of the design of the Alpha turbo kit, we were never able to get close to the same power numbers of the HAHN kit. I hope it is understood that the power levels we are talking about here are very much higher than the base kits ship with and also beyond what most people will ever try to reach. @rabtech though did have a built engine and wanted as much power as he could get with that new engine, so we started taking a look at the Alpha kit and making changes.

We ended up changing/modifying the exhaust, turbo, intercooler, fuel injectors and MAP sensor to allow the now custom turbo setup on @rabtech 's Slingshot to breathe and make more power than the HAHN turbo kit and actually do it more reliably. That is when the Haltech came into play as an option for this setup, once we went full custom. The base tunes that Bob@'MEFIburn' does for the turbo kits and supercharger kits work really well in a broad range of hardware configurations. It is really hard to do a volumetric efficiency tune (VE) that is going to work on a broad amount of hardware, when changes to that hardware, changes the Volumetric efficiency of the system. Everytime the volumetric efficiency changes, the tune has to be altered, but the base tunes from Bob work pretty well even with different hardware installed. Obviously, Bob has a lot of time into this and years of experience to work off of and his tunes have worked well for a lot of people. Really for probably 99% of everyone that ever gets a Slingshot, his tune for NA, Turbo or Supercharger is going to be all that they would ever need.

With @rabtech 's Slingshot and his new hardware though, the base tune from Bob was just not able to keep up or fuel it properly. We had changed so much of the hardware that it was just not the same turbo kit any longer and this is where the Haltech worked out nicely. @oneshot already said this and I will stress again, the base tune that is on the Haltech is not optimized at all. If you do not know how to tune or do not have a tuner that knows what they are doing, you will be better off with the tune from Bob. The Haltech if not setup and tuned properly can and most likely will blow up your engine. I spent an enourmous amount of time developing the Haltech tune further on @rabtech 's Slingshot and could spend an enourmous more amount of time on it still to keep making it better. There simply has not been enough time spent with the Haltech and the various different setups out there to start to build a good base tune database. That being said, the Haltech does have a lot of nice features, but it is going to take some more time on the dyno and driving to really get everything dialed in , like cam phasing, boost controller, anti-lag, etc. Going forward though, the good thing is that once more and more people have tunes with the Haltech, that information can be shared with each other and a database can be created to share different peoples tunes and information. The more that the sharing of that information happens, the better and better the tunes will get for everyone.

Really, the Haltech and the tune from Bob @MEFIburn are 2 different tools for 2 different problems. The tune from Bob@mefiburn is the solution for 99% of the people out there that are running the base turbo or supercharger kit as it is delivered from a particular vendor and works. The Haltech is going to be for people that want to start changing hardware on these kits, are doing one off builds or doing things that have never been done before and need a solution to be able to tune that and also have the ability to do it. I personally think it is awesome to have both options since they cater to different people and different situations.

I think that something we all need to remember though is that none of this is needed by anyone, these are toys. This is all just for fun, and some people like to chase the rainbow for more power and that chase gives them the thrill more than the power (the power is fun though also). Some people will just bolt on something and be happy with what they have, drive it forever and never look for more. In the end, as long as we can enjoy these toys the way we want to, life is good.

Quote from Dave@DDMWorks

It was a lot of fun, but a lot of work this past weekend while @rabtech was here with the great white beast.

It is very interesting where we are at today with the Slingshot and horsepower. When the first turbo kits were coming out, I remember seeing 250HP at the wheel and it was a big deal. Then not that long later and 300HP at the wheel was doing really good. A little over a year later and 300HP at the wheel is almost considered commonplace at this point. Thanks to the work of a lot of people out there, we are seeing north of 400HP at the wheel and I am sure it will just continue to go higher.

I think that everyone so far has brought up some really good points in this thread and @rabtech has documented really well his journey so far for everyone to see. Just a quick recap, as most of you know, he started off with the HAHN turbo and that turbo setup did really pretty well, I think there is an entire thread about just that build. The HAHN kit is not the most high tech setup, but it works and made really good power, especially considering that none of these turbo setups from HAHN or Alpha seem like they were designed from the beginning to be high horsepower setups we have pushed them to be. After putting up really good power numbers with the HAHN kit, it seemed that Alpha wanted to see what their kit could do on the same Slingshot and sent @rabtech a turbo kit. There were some problems that arose with that kit that delayed us getting power numbers on it, but basically the components that were choosen for the Alpha kit are more focused on transient turbo response than ultimate power. That is always a tradeoff with turbos, and on the street, most people like a quicker transient response. Because of the design of the Alpha turbo kit, we were never able to get close to the same power numbers of the HAHN kit. I hope it is understood that the power levels we are talking about here are very much higher than the base kits ship with and also beyond what most people will ever try to reach. @rabtech though did have a built engine and wanted as much power as he could get with that new engine, so we started taking a look at the Alpha kit and making changes.

We ended up changing/modifying the exhaust, turbo, intercooler, fuel injectors and MAP sensor to allow the now custom turbo setup on @rabtech 's Slingshot to breathe and make more power than the HAHN turbo kit and actually do it more reliably. That is when the Haltech came into play as an option for this setup, once we went full custom. The base tunes that Bob@'MEFIburn' does for the turbo kits and supercharger kits work really well in a broad range of hardware configurations. It is really hard to do a volumetric efficiency tune (VE) that is going to work on a broad amount of hardware, when changes to that hardware, changes the Volumetric efficiency of the system. Everytime the volumetric efficiency changes, the tune has to be altered, but the base tunes from Bob work pretty well even with different hardware installed. Obviously, Bob has a lot of time into this and years of experience to work off of and his tunes have worked well for a lot of people. Really for probably 99% of everyone that ever gets a Slingshot, his tune for NA, Turbo or Supercharger is going to be all that they would ever need.

With @rabtech 's Slingshot and his new hardware though, the base tune from Bob was just not able to keep up or fuel it properly. We had changed so much of the hardware that it was just not the same turbo kit any longer and this is where the Haltech worked out nicely. @oneshot already said this and I will stress again, the base tune that is on the Haltech is not optimized at all. If you do not know how to tune or do not have a tuner that knows what they are doing, you will be better off with the tune from Bob. The Haltech if not setup and tuned properly can and most likely will blow up your engine. I spent an enourmous amount of time developing the Haltech tune further on @rabtech 's Slingshot and could spend an enourmous more amount of time on it still to keep making it better. There simply has not been enough time spent with the Haltech and the various different setups out there to start to build a good base tune database. That being said, the Haltech does have a lot of nice features, but it is going to take some more time on the dyno and driving to really get everything dialed in , like cam phasing, boost controller, anti-lag, etc. Going forward though, the good thing is that once more and more people have tunes with the Haltech, that information can be shared with each other and a database can be created to share different peoples tunes and information. The more that the sharing of that information happens, the better and better the tunes will get for everyone.

Really, the Haltech and the tune from Bob @MEFIburn are 2 different tools for 2 different problems. The tune from Bob@mefiburn is the solution for 99% of the people out there that are running the base turbo or supercharger kit as it is delivered from a particular vendor and works. The Haltech is going to be for people that want to start changing hardware on these kits, are doing one off builds or doing things that have never been done before and need a solution to be able to tune that and also have the ability to do it. I personally think it is awesome to have both options since they cater to different people and different situations.

I think that something we all need to remember though is that none of this is needed by anyone, these are toys. This is all just for fun, and some people like to chase the rainbow for more power and that chase gives them the thrill more than the power (the power is fun though also). Some people will just bolt on something and be happy with what they have, drive it forever and never look for more. In the end, as long as we can enjoy these toys the way we want to, life is good.

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WELL SAID!!!

Quote from rabtech

That could be true also.... I have often wondered how one SS could act so crappy and another one that is identical act so perfect. I am sure the tune is the same between the two. And if the parts are the same it should act very close to the same. But you end up with one that stutters or runs rich or lean. I guess we usually chock those issues up to a problem with the MAP sensor or bad injectors. But in truth could it be the actual factory ECU being a bit different than another one.... I guess we will never know. But it's a theory.

Not to beat this dead horse, but all the things that could cause these issues were changed when I installed the SC kit... so its deeper than just a sensor or a part I feel.

That's Just Plain RUDE !!
I know your folks taught you to share !

Quote from rabtech

Not when it comes to HP. I need all of it I can get... Especially now that there is a VTEC SS in Florida.... If he has more power we will all be eating sushi and using chopsticks.

What's the point of all that HP if you aren't going to come to Summit Point, WV Track Day (Sat, Apr 22nd 2017, 8:00am - 9:00am) and show us how it's done??