Conservative Politics & Daily Events Discussion

Lots of us have worked at union and nonunion jobs. There is such a wide variety of unions and union jobs and lots of good people in both places. I spent a number of years as a union negotiator fighting for the good of the group. I think I did a good job and didn't much of a thanks for the efforts put in. So many different things come into play.

Quote from EjFord

Lots of us have worked at union and nonunion jobs. There is such a wide variety of unions and union jobs and lots of good people in both places. I spent a number of years as a union negotiator fighting for the good of the group. I think I did a good job and didn't much of a thanks for the efforts put in. So many different things come into play.

Now you I can believe. The comments I've heard so far are from those who were looking through glass with their own little Alice in wonderland gaze. Glad I got out and stayed out.

On another note.....

Business is good in America 🇺🇸
The CEO of the USA seems to know what he’s doing. 😎

And on another note...

The California socialist dream moves one step closer. Regulate a business into oblivion- destroy it- then take it over. Because we all know Sacramento can run everything better.

I am a current union worker. Grant you my union is unique. We are categorized as essential, so we can not strike. Some geniuses before my time also allowed a "last, best" clause to be in our contract. Which is to say, management could offer a $2 pay cut, which we would reject. Their second offer could be a $3 pay cut which would force us to take the "last, best offer" , $2 pay cut. Luckily management hasn't stuck it to us that badly. We recently got a raise because the private sector unions in our field pay much more and we were losing people to them.

I previously stated why I think unions are important, which is basically they were created out of necessity and that necessity will always be there.

The down sides of a union are garbage workers are protected and don't fear getting fired.

The best workers don't get a promotion until the guys with more longevity (time in) move up. Every position is bid, and the guys with the most time in get first dibs, everytime. This is another point that keeps garbage workers from changing. They move up in time regardless of performance.

The pros are higher wages, great medical coverage, generous vacation and sick time, often very flexible use of that sick and vacation time. I can call in tomorrow morning and use sick or vacation time to take tomorrow and as many days as I have accrued(currently the most you can accrue is 16 weeks) off and management can't stop me or punish me. Guaranteed at least a 40 hour work week, that is huge for me. Increasingly fewer offer it, but you can still get a Pention plan(which I have).

I worked for a builder for 10 years prior to getting a union job. 60-70 hours a week in the summer and 20-30 hours a week in the winter. It is tough to budget with such uncertain fluctuations in pay. I started as a laborer and moved up to Site Supervisor. I also hauled and operated heavy equipment(dozers, loaders, back hoes, excavators, grading tractor, Skidster, forklift, Ditch Witch) for the same guy in his other companies when my houses were on schedule to close. When I got to work it was go, go, go. A 30 minute lunch break meant 30 minutes, it better not be 31. Morning break and afternoon breaks did not exist in that job like they do in the union.

When I first came to the union I was amazed at the amount of bitching over silly things. People genuinely angry about things that I considered to be very generous. They would say, "You don't understand, we use to have... this is B.S.". I found it is very hard to argue with that logic. Most of the union guys I know, at my work and auto worker friends, got in young through a friend or family member and don't know anything but that union job.

Quote from Bill Martin

obviously you didn’t hear —— this is fruits of the OBAMA administration!!

Obviously you forgot that many of you gave Trump credit during his first week, thus eliminating Obama from the equation. Remember that in the future.

I won't ask you to pull up a graph that includes the year and a half prior to Trump and put a ruler along the peaks through today.

WOLF perhaps.. I had no idea Obama was so multifaceted. He should have skipped the presidency and gone to his true forte- FILM.
Who knew his cinematic gift would bring 50+ million on his first try. Thank goodness a capitalist corporation like NETFLIX discovered his unique documentary talents for exposing greed. 🙂

The only reason Obama reduced the unemployment rate was he gave jobs to all his cronies and well funded campaign contributors. Especially the ones that George Soros told him needed high paying no show jobs.

IMO - During the Obama years our economy grew IN SPITE of him not because of him. This country's growth at that time was a testament to our business tenacity not "government help".

Quote from WOLF

I won't ask you to pull up a graph that includes the year and a half prior to Trump and put a ruler along the peaks through today.

you mean a graph like this of the Dow Jones Average that starts in mid 2015 and stays totally flat through Obama's last year and a half and into the first 6 months of Trumps first year and then takes off from around 17,500 it sat at for all that time to the the almost 28,000 it closed at yesterday? seriously it closed down lower at the end of 2015 than it started the year at - - - is this the graph you want to put a ruler on?

or did you want unemployment numbers like this - showing it dropping from 4.90 to 3.50 since Trump took office - The last year it was below where it is now was in 1948 when it was 3.40 unemployment rates by year - in 2008 when Obama took office unemployment was 5,00 when his time in office was done it was only .1 different at at 4.90 in 8 years in office - did you want to put the ruler across that? - - really?

Quote from WOLF

I am a current union worker. Grant you my union is unique. We are categorized as essential, so we can not strike. Some geniuses before my time also allowed a "last, best" clause to be in our contract. Which is to say, management could offer a $2 pay cut, which we would reject. Their second offer could be a $3 pay cut which would force us to take the "last, best offer" , $2 pay cut. Luckily management hasn't stuck it to us that badly. We recently got a raise because the private sector unions in our field pay much more and we were losing people to them.

I previously stated why I think unions are important, which is basically they were created out of necessity and that necessity will always be there.

The down sides of a union are garbage workers are protected and don't fear getting fired.

The best workers don't get a promotion until the guys with more longevity (time in) move up. Every position is bid, and the guys with the most time in get first dibs, everytime. This is another point that keeps garbage workers from changing. They move up in time regardless of performance.

The pros are higher wages, great medical coverage, generous vacation and sick time, often very flexible use of that sick and vacation time. I can call in tomorrow morning and use sick or vacation time to take tomorrow and as many days as I have accrued(currently the most you can accrue is 16 weeks) off and management can't stop me or punish me. Guaranteed at least a 40 hour work week, that is huge for me. Increasingly fewer offer it, but you can still get a Pention plan(which I have).

I worked for a builder for 10 years prior to getting a union job. 60-70 hours a week in the summer and 20-30 hours a week in the winter. It is tough to budget with such uncertain fluctuations in pay. I started as a laborer and moved up to Site Supervisor. I also hauled and operated heavy equipment(dozers, loaders, back hoes, excavators, grading tractor, Skidster, forklift, Ditch Witch) for the same guy in his other companies when my houses were on schedule to close. When I got to work it was go, go, go. A 30 minute lunch break meant 30 minutes, it better not be 31. Morning break and afternoon breaks did not exist in that job like they do in the union.

When I first came to the union I was amazed at the amount of bitching over silly things. People genuinely angry about things that I considered to be very generous. They would say, "You don't understand, we use to have... this is B.S.". I found it is very hard to argue with that logic. Most of the union guys I know, at my work and auto worker friends, got in young through a friend or family member and don't know anything but that union job.

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That's your end of things, my end of things was a little turd union that passed a 25 cent raise for three years.When you figure in union dues everyone lost money.

Quote from WOLF

Crap, I work for the government. They got me.

Unions created the strongest middle class ever and are under attack by the far left or right, I forget.

so - you are a Government Union Employee

is this correct?

if so it it does help me understand your politics

you are a cog in the government machine - you depend on that machine remaining in a state of operation that includes you

Quote from WOLF

I can't argue that greed has permeated Unions and their leadership. I can very much argue against getting rid of unions. Without unions workers would once again be scraping by in a matter of years. I know some like to argue that there are plenty of places without unions that pay well and provide benefits. That is because of unions, not despite them. If there were no unions there would be no benchmark to draw in good employees. There would just be jobs that all pay crap.

A good number of my family worked in the steel mills of Pittsburgh PA back in the day of Carnegie. I totally understand the formation of a union at that time and place in history. I, myself HAD to join a union to work in LA harbor over 30 years ago. It was every bit of the stereotype you see in the movies in my union shop.

I hated it. I lasted about 7 months.

7.6 million (6.5%) | Number (percentage) of private sector workers who belong to a union
I have no problem if you want to be in a union. Especially a PRIVATE sector union.
If you feel the need to unionize against a private company - that is your right and knock yourself out.

7.2 million (34.4%) | Number (percentage) of public sector workers who belong to a union.
I do have a problem with PUBLIC sector unions today. I really need to be schooled on this one.

WHY do public sector unions even exist? It is Americans unionized against Americans.
In what way are the people of this great country oppressing public sector people to the extent that they need to unionize against their neighbor? It is called public service.

When a person in this county puts EVERYTHING on the line and starts a business it it theirs. Not the guy that applies for a job there - it is the owners. Owners come in all shapes and sizes. The owner of a company must put together an environment where he/she can provide the best service/product to their clients and a work place that is attractive and attracts high quality workers that hopefully achieve that goal. If a person does not like working for a specific company - go to another one. I have great issue with workers unionizing against an employer to force the owner(s) in a direction they do not want to go. If the company is horrible to their workers they will eventually fail. Again - go to another company where you think you can get a better deal if you feel mistreated / not appreciated.

OR, start your own company/business. Everyone in this country has that right / opportunity. Be entrepreneurial and get a taste of what it takes to do so. But believe me, it is no small thing. This great country is overflowing with stories of people that started businesses on a shoestring and what seemed impossible beginnings and made something great. This is the one place on this planet where it CAN be done. I believe we must appreciate and celibrate those that have taken that path and have provided opportunities for their neighbors to be employed.

what I love (thats sarcasm) are the laws some state and local governments have that if they hire a non-union company to do a job they have to pay the workers what they would pay if they hired union workers - Its from the Davis Bacon Act - some call it Prevailing wages - specifically designed to keep non union companies from underbidding for contracts it is anti competition BS that artificially drives up costs and the taxes required to pay those costs

its just some more of the crap big unions have negotiated with their bought cronies in government to guarantee that small businesses cant come in and compete or under bid them - - it maintains the unions hold on jobs they couldnt keep if they actually had to bib against non union shops

And just to be clear I have nothing against the actual workers who have union jobs - I wouldn't hesitate to take a job just because it was a union job - just like most I would love the protections and guarantees a union might give me - - - who wouldn't?

Obviously this is a purely partisan opinion however I believe the unionization that takes place in America is simply the biggest money laundering outfit for the DNC.

Quote from SoCal

WOLF perhaps.. I had no idea Obama was so multifaceted. He should have skipped the presidency and gone to his true forte- FILM.
Who knew his cinematic gift would bring 50+ million on his first try. Thank goodness a capitalist corporation like NETFLIX discovered his unique documentary talents for exposing greed. 🙂

I'll have to look that up. I was unaware.

Quote from War Hoop

That's your end of things, my end of things was a little turd union that passed a 25 cent raise for three years.When you figure in union dues everyone lost money.

Sorry to here that. That would suck donkey balls and have me asking, "what's the point of a union?".