Conservative Politics & Daily Events Discussion

    The problem as I see it is the adversarial attitude that we as both a people and we as countries seem to need to maintain with others.


    For some damn reason the need to take sides and then impose what we believe onto others seems to be baked into our DNA.


    Think about it, you see it in every aspect of our lives around us - from neighbors on a street fighting over what they are allowed to do in their own yards all the way up to countries thinking they have the right to tell other countries what they can or can't do.


    We as a people seem to be completely incapable of letting others think and do what they want unless it is in agreement with what we think is right.


    And it very clear in our politics where both Right and Left think it is their job to push their views onto those on the other side.


    The concept of "live and let live" does not exist in the real world. In the actual deeds of people or countries its more like "if you do what I/we approve of then we will leave you alone"


    All of my life I have been told - We are good - Russia is bad, We are good - China is bad, We are good - Cuba is bad, We are good - Iran is bad - - I mean the list goes on an on, sometimes an enemy gets added and sometimes one falls off, but nothing really ever changes its always preached from birth that we are the good guys and those countries and people that dont agree with our way of doing things and thinking are literally our enemy


    Why???


    Why are we so unable to live next to people without wanting to change them into our way of thinking and doing things?


    Are humans simply incapable of allowing others to have different beliefs and different ways of wanting to do things? Is it some basic survival instinct that's baked in and can never be changed?


    Why can't we be friends with all of these other countries and have a healthy relationship and accept that they dont want their countries to be a mirror image of what we want?


    We all say we want peace - but do we really? - - is there a genetic need to be in control baked into our DNA that simply wont allow it?


    Just venting my random thoughts. - perhaps the only real fix would be to give everyone in the world a slingshot at least then we could all get together for rides in between the wars


    Anyway - I think I'll get my gun and go tell that ass hat down the street to trim his bushes and get that damn parked chevy off of his front lawn, house looks like shit! think I'll steal his Biden sign while I at it - - - - - :/

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    @Edward Neal Hmm are you saying that we should just let Putin take over what ever country he wants? Well maybe your neighbor likes his Chevy parked in his front lawn. No there needs to be rules but those rules need to be fair. Now go key that Chevy since it belongs to a liberal.

    If the music is to loud you are to old.

    I think Putin is going to find out even if he completes his objective, he is going to lose bigtime. Ukraine did nothing to provoke this. Those people will never forgive him. If he puts a puppet government in place their will be resistance for a very long time.

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    Quote from Edward Neal

    The problem as I see it is the adversarial attitude that we as both a people and we as countries seem to need to maintain with others.


    For some damn reason the need to take sides and then impose what we believe onto others seems to be baked into our DNA.


    - - - - - :/


    The answer is very simple and you mentioned it.


    We are by nature pack animals ..... period.


    If you respect and work within this predisposed survival instinct that can be grown from family, to community, to state, to country, complete with cooperation with other packs. But only if the individual is allowed to retain a connection to their base instinct.


    However it is also ingrained in our DNA to defend our pack against aggressors and cast out weak leaders.


    A Kumbaya world is against our very nature and recognizing that fact is the first step in getting along. "Live and let live" can be restated as leave my pack alone and I will leave your pack alone. But that only works if you admit, understand, and accept what I mentioned above.



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    ...... ninja-squared


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    :REDSS: The ghost of SLingshot past ......

    Quote from DJohnson

    @Edward Neal Hmm are you saying that we should just let Putin take over what ever country he wants? Well maybe your neighbor likes his Chevy parked in his front lawn. No there needs to be rules but those rules need to be fair. Now go key that Chevy since it belongs to a liberal.

    perhaps the better question is "why does Putin feel the need to go after the Ukraine"


    this is a country that in the past was in alignment with Russia. As such not a threat, but we, the U.S. and our allies have been pushing to change that alignment. we have been pushing to get the Ukraine to "switch sides" - - - and just like the U.S. didn't want Cuba on Russia's side and the "enemy" in our own back yard Putin does not want the Ukraine to join what he sees as "the other side" and be sitting in his back yard


    this is what we seem to always overlook - we want to get all these other countries, former soviet block countries. to come on over to "our side" and then we act surprised when Russia and Putin act upset


    so - the question shouldn't be "should we let Putin do this" - but rather "why doe he feel the need do do this" - perhaps also "what can we do different so that Putin doesn't feel threatened"


    this is all a two way street - What do you think we would do if this were all reversed - what would we do if Mexico were going to become politically and militarily aligned with Russia, what if they were wanting to join a pact with Russia where if they joined this pact Russia would put weapons there and would defend them if needed - - Do you think we might try to stop that? do you think we might even intervene militarily to prevent it from happening? - - - -


    sides - always your side vs my side - - like I said in my post above this is the problem, if after the Cold War if we had moved to combine sides to where there were no sides this would not be happening, but we didn't do that, instead we have been pushing to grow "our side" right up to Putins back door


    So anyway, to your question - No I am not saying we should let Putin take over whatever he wants - -what I am saying is that I can understand why he does not want a U.S. aligned country, the second largest country in the region after Russia, to be militarily aligned with NATO and the U.S. knocking on his back door - - - - how could I not understand this after growing up with my neighbors building bomb shelters in their yards and us being on the verge of Nuclear war when Russia tried to do the same with Cuba knocking on our back door and the Cuba missile crises?


    like I said, its a two way street - if its something that would piss us off we need to know when we do the same thing its going to piss them off

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    Might some of these or all of these be why Putin want Ukraine?


    Keith Anderson


    Ft6Se5cbruaryo 24m at aso7:09 ar2AM878da ·


    For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “ This is why Ukraine matters.
    It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
    of over 40 million - more than Poland.

    Ukraine ranks:
    1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
    2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
    2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
    2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
    2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
    3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
    4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
    7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)

    Ukraine is an important agricultural country:

    1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
    3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
    1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
    2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
    3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
    4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
    5th largest rye producer in the world;
    5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
    8th place in the world in wheat exports;
    9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
    16th place in the world in cheese exports.

    Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

    Ukraine is an important industrialised country:

    1st in Europe in ammonia production;
    Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
    3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
    3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
    3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
    3rd largest iron exporter in the world
    4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
    4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
    4th place in the world in clay exports
    4th place in the world in titanium exports
    8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
    9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
    10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

    Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world.

    If the music is to loud you are to old.

    And - the Ukraine was once a part of the Soviet Union and something that Putin probabally believes was taken away from Russia and he wants it back along with everything on you list that comes with it.


    Putin is a very head strong man with a huge ego - - - actually very much like Trump - - - - both men that get the job done and dont really care what others think about how they do it 8o

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    NATO has been around for over 70 years. To my knowledge NATO has never used its authority in an initial offensive and is purely founded with a defensive posture. If anyone can inform different? Putin knows this. I am not a fan of NATO but it does promote the objective of peace through strength, so in that perspective it serves some purpose. Ukraine itself is surrounded by NATO countries. So not much changes. My thought, if Putin was afraid of Ukraine becoming a member of NATO it's not founded out of a fear but founded out of the realization if Ukraine became a NATO member, he would lose his option to overtake and control Ukraine.


    Highlights

    • The Washington Treaty – or North Atlantic Treaty – forms the basis of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization – or NATO.
    • The Treaty was signed in Washington D.C. on 4 April 1949 by 12 founding members.
    • The Treaty derives its authority from Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, which reaffirms the inherent right of independent states to individual or collective defence.
    • Collective defence is at the heart of the Treaty and is enshrined in Article 5. It commits members to protect each other and sets a spirit of solidarity within the Alliance.
    • The Treaty is short – containing only 14 articles – and provides for in-built flexibility on all fronts.
    • Despite the changing security environment, the original Treaty has never had to be modified and each Ally has the possibility to implement the text in accordance with its capabilities and circumstances.
    Quote from Frankie55

    If this is true all I can say is wow!


    Reports: “Two Russian Il-76s Shot Down” in Ukraine, Combat Erupts in Kyiv - The Aviationist


    Russian Ilyushin IL-76 carries out Canadian mining ...

    There have been several reports of the downing of 2 of the II-76's from yesterday and there have been reports of 2 more downed today, but so far nothing has been confirmed with pics/videos. As with all the reports, take these with a grain of salt, it does seem that Ukraine is kicking some ass though as so far their air force is still able to operate, which after 3 days of fighting Russia is pretty impressive. Lots of reports that Russia may have underestimated the resistance it was going to face in Ukraine and reports of their supply lines not able to keep their tanks and armored vehicles supplied also -



    Another interesting thing is that Russian state media seems to not be posting a lot of information on the war and showing damage to Ukraine targets and military vehicles. Ukraine has definitely been taking out some helicopters though, this video shows a Russian MI-24 shot down -



    There are some really good places to see lots of updates that I have been watching. Reddit has a page that updates very frequently with all kinds of information - https://www.reddit.com/live/18hnzysb1elcs


    The site that has a lot of Military information and updates regularly (also their main site has great car info) - https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone

    ...and Russia must be very careful to use just enough force necessary to complete their objective. If he intends to take the country or install a proxy government, he will need to deal with that when the time comes. My hope (and it's a long shot) is his military will come to sympathy with it's brethren country and lay down their arms.

    Quote from Frankie55

    ...and Russia must be very careful to use just enough force necessary to complete their objective. If he intends to take the country or install a proxy government, he will need to deal with that when the time comes. My hope (and it's a long shot) is his military will come to sympathy with it's brethren country and lay down their arms.

    Objective? - - - I would say taking the country, or at minimum installing a proxy government is his objective, I can think of nothing short of this that Putin would want.


    having said this I agree 100% that I hope and pray that he looks at how this is playing out and changes his mind. - - on the other hand my fear is that this thing grows into something much bigger than it already is - that he might decide that his response to the sanctions should be to expand his attack and attempt to harm those imposing the sanctions - - - there are many things he could do short of direct military attack to attempt a payback of sorts


    Like I said in one of my prior posts we are dealing here with a very big ego, and ego that will not want to let this end in anyway that he can't call a victory, and ego that might be willing to allow this thing to go to places most normal people would not

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    As a side note I am really at a loss to understand these reports I am reading about people and business dumping out their Russian vodka or of governors ordering the suspension of sales of Russian Vodka


    this vodka they are not selling, this vodka they are dumping it has all already been imported and paid for, Russian companies have already been paid for this - - the only people getting hurt by this are the people here in this country that bought this vodka and now can't sell it to get their money back


    this is really very stupid - - if you want to hurt Russia you dont dump what you already bought, instead you stop buying and importing any more


    so typical of people acting on their emotions and not using their brains - - its like stupid boycotts that only hurt the workers and never hurt the intended target

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    Quote from DJohnson

    I totally agree. Drink the vodka and don't buy any more. I am not sure but I suspect these were liberal governors that ordered this. They don't seam to think out what they do.

    it was the governor of Ohio - Republican

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