Conservative Politics & Daily Events Discussion

    Quote from OrangeSlingFL

    You claim to be a centrist but you are actually pretty leftist. Abortion is not about religion at its core, its straight up murder with the justification that is women that suffer. Do you think biologically we were meant to have abortions as mammals? Murder is murder it has nothing to do with relogion. If i have to explain why thats murder maybe you should go back to basic biology classes.

    not at all, very centre. I have views that are leaning left, and I have views that are leaning right. Abortion in my opinion is not about murder. It's about the right of a woman to be able to have an abortion if needed. Why should the state dictate that someone cannot have an abortion if needed. I definitely don't think it should be used as a "method" of birth control.

    It's religion that typically dictates the thought that it's murder to the believer in that religion. Government should not be involved, state or otherwise, BUT, someone needs to set the ground rules, and others follow, so the Roe vs Wade set the ground rules that abortion can be done. Individual states are overturning that, example Arizona.

    Do you not think that an abortion should be necessary in cases of women being raped and becoming pregnant? Arizona law will not even allow that. So lets bring a rapists baby into the world? NOT IN FAVOUR OF THAT


    My religious zealots comment was not direct at anyone that is religious. Christian, Catholic, whatever your choice. It's was more intended tongue in cheek, as I anticipated feedback. Some of it stronger that others. I have no problem with religion, to each their own.


    You say "murder is murder". Its religious based when talking about abortion, but not religious based when taking about guns. You want your cake and eat it too. Put in place some measures to deal with gun control so they don't get in the hands of people that should not have them. Background checks, etc. Not saying don't have them, load up, but let's limit to the law abiding citizen that goes through the proper checks. Less guns in the hands of crazies, less murder. SO murder is obviously not murder, only when it suits your thoughts.

    BTW. I already know the answer. Can't take the guns from the law abiding citizens, as you need them to defend and kill, if someone is threatening you. Its the 2nd amendment, a (200year old document) that was created when people had horse and buggy and black powder guns, so its pretty relevant in todays society.


    Anything further left then your thoughts is a leftist and socialism, but centre is left of right also, and is a compromise of both

    You claim that murder when it refers to unborn babies is primarily a religious belief, well I ask you when is it (according to you) considered a life? At conception? At 4 weeks? At 16 weeks? At what time would it be considered murder MORALLY then because last time I checked we have a brain and can differentiate right from wrong. Lets see how truly " centrist" you really are and where your political bias kicks in. You casually shifted from abortion to the gun conversation assuming that I am a hardcore republican which I am not but I'll reply. We have plenty of strict gun laws already and as a matter of fact the states with the strictest gun laws (Chicago, New York, LA etc) seem to have the highest gun related crimes and murders in the country (so much for making it close to impossible for law abiding citizens to get a gun). Btw I do not care if you are a leftist or a socialist or a communist for that matter, just dont come in here claiming to be a moderate when you obviously lean "left" to say the least.

    The 2nd Amendment is in the Constitution that protects your right to own firearms - it is NOT a right in the Constitution to have an abortion so that’s comparing apples to oranges. Everyone is making good points but one we have not hit on. Just exactly when do we consider life beginning?? It would seem to me that if we could put a number on that a lot of this conflict could be resolved. Unfortunately we still haven’t figured that out in the last 50 years. Does life begin as soon as you roll off her - a week - a month or when the woman finds out ?? Just for argument purposes - let’s suppose your hot & heavy with a babe and your rubber springs a leak. Woman doesn’t find out till 2 - 3 months later - should she be forced to have it and either raise an unwanted child or give it away?? There are so many facets to this issue there just is no simple fix - other than women keeping their legs crossed. I imagine men would figure out a solution post haste in a bipartisan manner :00008172:

    I might not be right but I can sure sound like it

    Quote from OrangeSlingFL

    You claim that murder when it refers to unborn babies is primarily a religious belief, well I ask you when is it (according to you) considered a life? At conception? At 4 weeks? At 16 weeks? At what time would it be considered murder MORALLY then because last time I checked we have a brain and can differentiate right from wrong. Lets see how truly " centrist" you really are and where your political bias kicks in. You casually shifted from abortion to the gun conversation assuming that I am a hardcore republican which I am not but I'll reply. We have plenty of strict gun laws already and as a matter of fact the states with the strictest gun laws (Chicago, New York, LA etc) seem to have the highest gun related crimes and murders in the country (so much for making it close to impossible for law abiding citizens to get a gun). Btw I do not care if you are a leftist or a socialist or a communist for that matter, just dont come in here claiming to be a moderate when you obviously lean "left" to say the least.

    As I don't look at it as murder, thats not really a practical question for me to answer. I know there are rules around when women can or can't have abortions based on timeline. I am sure you can't get an abortion after a certain length of time being pregnant. I never researched that, and not planning on it. The point is religious beliefs are typically behind the pro life movement, maybe not all Catholics or born again, or whatever are against, but the majority are.

    I see it in the US and it's the same up here. One persons beliefs should not be forced on others. States should not ban it outright, which Arizona will, along with other states. They should have rules, exclusions, etc. but they don't.


    No where do I even mention your political bias. I could not care less, honestly. Everyone always assumes you're a Republican if you don't lean left, and a Democrat if you don't lean right. Up here Liberal or Conservative. I actually don't give my support to any specific party, and vote based on what the platform is, not what my family votes. So could go one way or the other depending on the scenario.


    you know what they say about assuming....


    How is this gun control? https://www.washingtonpost.com…ealed-carry-gun-law-ohio/

    Quote from Bill Martin

    The 2nd Amendment is in the Constitution that protects your right to own firearms - it is NOT a right in the Constitution to have an abortion so that’s comparing apples to oranges. Everyone is making good points but one we have not hit on. Just exactly when do we consider life beginning?? It would seem to me that if we could put a number on that a lot of this conflict could be resolved. Unfortunately we still haven’t figured that out in the last 50 years. Does life begin as soon as you roll off her - a week - a month or when the woman finds out ?? Just for argument purposes - let’s suppose your hot & heavy with a babe and your rubber springs a leak. Woman doesn’t find out till 2 - 3 months later - should she be forced to have it and either raise an unwanted child or give it away?? There are so many facets to this issue there just is no simple fix - other than women keeping their legs crossed. I imagine men would figure out a solution post haste in a bipartisan manner :00008172:


    Counselor I must say I am shocked ........



    And the left set it.


    This ruling has nothing to do with right or wrong, when, why, why not. It simply and solely has to do with where it is proper under our Constitution to answer those questions. And as you have so rightfully mentioned, in the US that is at the state level.


    ....... kiss-squared


    .

    :REDSS: The ghost of SLingshot past ......

    Quote from Bill Martin

    The 2nd Amendment is in the Constitution that protects your right to own firearms - it is NOT a right in the Constitution to have an abortion so that’s comparing apples to oranges. Everyone is making good points but one we have not hit on. Just exactly when do we consider life beginning?? It would seem to me that if we could put a number on that a lot of this conflict could be resolved. Unfortunately we still haven’t figured that out in the last 50 years. Does life begin as soon as you roll off her - a week - a month or when the woman finds out ?? Just for argument purposes - let’s suppose your hot & heavy with a babe and your rubber springs a leak. Woman doesn’t find out till 2 - 3 months later - should she be forced to have it and either raise an unwanted child or give it away?? There are so many facets to this issue there just is no simple fix - other than women keeping their legs crossed. I imagine men would figure out a solution post haste in a bipartisan manner :00008172:

    It is apples to oranges and not a constitution debate. Was more about the point of weapons and murder, and abortions being called murder.


    Just read, in the US, 91.6% of abortions are performed within the first thirteen weeks of pregnancy. Not an issue in my eyes.


    Two topics that you will never win in a discussion. Politics and religion. Also funny enough the 2 most prominent reasons for war.

    Quote from OrangeSlingFL

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


    Case closed.

    Times change, and a 200year old document does not reflect the needs of today. Everything needs updating.


    I find it amusing that you feel uncomfortable enough in your own state to have to defend it against the unknown intruder in a "well regulated Militia". And you need a gun just in case you need to protect it. Who are you bearing arms against? another state that is going to try to annex yours, the Federal government telling you what to do, vigilante justice, or just because a 200 year old document says you can?

    Quote from Sparcky

    Times change, and a 200year old document does not reflect the needs of today. Everything needs updating.


    I find it amusing that you feel uncomfortable enough in your own state to have to defend it against the unknown intruder in a "well regulated Militia". And you need a gun just in case you need to protect it. Who are you bearing arms against? another state that is going to try to annex yours, the Federal government telling you what to do, vigilante justice, or just because a 200 year old document says you can?

    Exactly what a leftist would say OR someone who is simply ignorant about history. Any government turned rogue throughout history has first and foremost done so carefully after making sure the people were disarmed. Nazi germany, Soviet Union, my home country Cuba in 1959 etc etc all had that ONE thing in common, making sure the people were completely without firearms. When the founding fathers created the constitution they were way ahead of their time in their thinking. Even 200 years ago they decided that the United States of America WAS a republic by and FOR the people first and foremost and that it was the people that had the primary right and DUTY to overthrow any government gone rogue. They understood governments were corrupt and there was a chance of abuse of power against the people at any time, hence why the 2nd amendment ensures the american people have a chance at fighting back. It is imperative to protect the constitution of a country, it is the only legal document that should matter in the supreme court. Nothing less, nothing more.

    Quote from Sparcky

    Times change, and a 200year old document does not reflect the needs of today. Everything needs updating.


    I find it amusing that you feel uncomfortable enough in your own state to have to defend it against the unknown intruder in a "well regulated Militia". And you need a gun just in case you need to protect it. Who are you bearing arms against? another state that is going to try to annex yours, the Federal government telling you what to do, vigilante justice, or just because a 200 year old document says you can?

    I hope you understand that our 200 year old document is what this country is founded on. Being from another country I am sure you cannot understand the significance of that document. Your country did not have to fight for the rights you have. The document has much more meaning when it is earned with the blood of the people who wanted it and not just given to them.


    When you say everything needs to be updated, the framework does not change, what has changed over time is the additional bullshit (amendments) that has been added to the 200 year old document that you seem to want to malign. Those are the changes you are talking about. The well regulated militia was written at a time when we had just broken free from the government (England) which was over bearing just as our government is getting now. This allows the people to remind the government that they are a government of the people, by the people and for the people. I am guessing that you are looking at the antiquated piece of "paper" called the supreme law of Canada and think it should be re-written as well...


    When you make statements like "Who are you bearing arms against" it truly shows how little you understand about America. That 200 year old provision is there so the Government cannot overrun the individual liberties of the country. No state wants to annex another state.


    Please, before you talk about a 200 year old document take a look at your "document" and get that in order then when yours is perfect, talk to others.

    When the going gets tough.... Downshift.