Posts by BKL

I thought rabtech's post above was really neat so I Googled "lava lamps as random number generators" and got this - lava lamps as random number generators - Google Search. There's a lot of interesting background info listed.

I also found this PDF about loss of oil pressure after an oil change - 93-1R1.pdf. While they admit this is a rare occurrence, evidently it can happen. Since they say to replace the oil as immediately after draining the oil, this leads me to think that having the oil pan off or allowing the oil intake to be exposed to air for an extended period may allow oil in the intake and pump to drain out, resulting in loss of prime. Normally, during an oil change, the oil intake probably isn't exposed to air for more than a few minutes, so the oil probably doesn't have time to drain out. In my case, the pan was off for a lot longer than a few minutes, so there was plenty of time for the oil pump to lose prime.
Since my engine was running fine before I pulled the pan and nothing I've done should have adversely affected the oil pump other than the prolonged exposure to air while the pan was off, I believe my assumption that my problem is loss of oil pump prime is correct and I hope the pre-lube procedure should fix my problem.
Of course, I won't really know until I start the engine! Hopefully, I won't end looking like this -

As far as making a pre-luber, I purchased a Husqvarna 2 gal garden sprayer (5 yr warranty) at Lowes for $27. It uses screw-on fittings to secure the 3/8" internal diameter hose to the tank and I should have little trouble finding a good ball valve to control oil flow and fittings to connect the sprayer to the oil pressure sensor connection. Unfortunately, that connection is below the oil filter container and will probably be a PITA to use.

I'll post updates.

Quote from funinthesun

I REALLY don't want to sound like an ass, but with all the issues you've have with this, are you sure you put oil in the engine? Just want to eliminate the obvious first

I take your comment as intended. Simple mistakes often cause BIG problems. I checked the oil level several times throughout the install process. I even went and checked it again before posting this and the oil was about 4/5 of the way to the top of the measuring section of the oil stick.

Quote from TR Ganey

Back in the mid 70's when I was first learning to rebuild mopar motors I would pack the pump with petroleum jelly to insure that it didn't have problems picking up prime. I know it's a little late for that trick now but to be honest I have never had an issue getting an engine to pick up oil pressure. As long as there is oil there for it to pick up you should be able to remove the spark plugs (so the engine turns faster and easier) and spin it over several times and it should pick up the pressure. I am really interested to learn what you find.

Our ages must be similar. I pulled my first engine to replace a blown rear oil seal around 1970. It was a Chevy 235 ci straight-6 and originally had a rope seal that I replaced with a neoprene/rubber seal. Hadn't done anything like that before. Just grabbed a DIY manual (Chilton or Haynes, can't remember), rented an engine hoist over the weekend and did it.
While I was researching the oil pump priming situation, I came across an article where they said to pack the newly-installed oil pump with grease for the same reason you stated. Combining that tidbit with the pre-luber article about the starter not cranking the engine fast enough to prime the oil pump is what caused me to suspect that the oil pump may have lost prime during the extended period the oil pan was off and wasn't getting re-primed from the starter cranking process. The turbo installation instructions specify to either pull the spark pugs to check the gap or to replace them with fresh plugs (properly gapped). As part of the pre-lube process, while the pre-luber is pressurizing the oil lines, the crankshaft is supposed to be slowly rotated to ensure that all of the various oil lines get exposed to the pressurized oil flow. I can either use the starter or manually turn the crankshaft at that time and having the spark plugs out will facilitate the process.

Quote from rnj12

Holy smokes I'm glad it's late, dark outside, and no one is around. I teared up like a little baby. That 15 year old kid has more heart and manners then 99%of the people under 30 that I personally know.

RNJ12

Quote from FunCycle

It just blows my mine how good people are. I teared up myself.

I, too, was touched both by the Kid and his Mother's demeanor as well as the folks who made this come true for him! It's nice to remember there are good people out there.

Quote from Punisher

Just my two cents but when initially putting things all together are you sure you didn't miss a cap or plug that was installed to keep out unwanted items. I had a customer call me from the race track complaining that after changing the engine he was having overheating problems. Turned out in the rush to change the engine they missed removing the plug i put in the engine and put the hose right over it.

I'm pretty sure I didn't leave anything off as I carefully checked off each installation step as I did it. I've also gone over each step several times. I even went back and reread the instructions to make sure that all I needed to do for the oil feed line connection was install the fitting into the hole the oil plug came out of.
I'm thinking (hoping) the problem is the oil pump lost prime while the pan was off for so long and the intake was exposed to air which made it easier for the oil to leak out of the pump and down onto the carport floor. I think if the oil pan had been in place and the intake tube was submerged in oil, the oil pump would have kept its prime.
Either that or I'm just over-thinking everything, but the idea of using a pre-luber doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Quote from Orangeman

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Not going to be a popular reply but honestly .. I would be more concerned as to why your oil pump is not priming the system ...

I would hate to see you go through trouble of pre-lubing just to find out you have low, inconsistent, or worst case no oil pressure once started .....

If it will not prime on its own, finding out why would be my first priority .... but that's just me ....

....

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Actually, if the oil pump isn't properly priming (can't know for sure w/o taking off the front of the motor) that would be my major concern, too. I've read where some folks feel the starter may not be turning the crankshaft fast enough to properly prime the pump, although I'd think the Valvoline 5W30 Synthetic I just put in would be thin enough to pump easily. The motor sat w/o the oil pan on for almost 2 months. Normally, I wouldn't expect a problem because the oil pickup would be in oil and the pump shouldn't lose prime, but since the connection from the block's oil suction point was exposed to air, I'm concerned. Hopefully, the pre-luber will get enough oil into the pimp to ensure everything is full of oil and things should again run normally. I hope!

Quote from funhouse69

I couldn't agree more with everything you said here however Twist Dynamics hasn't responded to me at all or even SlingMods who is being nice enough to try and get them to respond / help me when I didn't even buy the wing from them. I also feel that they should be replacing them not with the cheap crap that they are made out of but something better that won't shear off.

As Chad said I am getting OEM Brackets just to get the wing back on my slingshot and will more than likely get new ones made at my expense as I don't want to take the chance in the long run of the wing breaking off at some point. Should i have to? Hell no but I like the looks of the wing and want to make it as safe as possible.

Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for the problems. It doesn't sound like TD is very interested in customer support.

After doing some online research, I'm leaning toward trying a DIY engine oil pre-luber. Unlike the older distributor ignition motors which drove the oil pump off the distributor, newer fuel injection motors drive the oil pump off the crankshaft. A lot of shops seem to use pre-lubers to force oil thru the engine oil passages to make sure there is oil ready to lube any moving parts.

Some pre-lubers use an air compressor to pressurize a tank containing oil to force the oil thru the engine and cost over $200 (Melling Prelube Engine Oiler Tanks MPL-101 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing) while other types use what is basically a very expensive garden sprayer, also costing over $200 (OTC Tools 6492: Engine Preluber Kit Oil Pressure Sensor Adapters Included | JEGS)! Drill-driven pump models are also common (DIY oil priming under $20 - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion). I found DIY plans for all 3 types, but the drill-driven pump used in the example is no longer available and I couldn't locate locally available, reliable replacments. Building an air compressor-driven system using a freon/propane/sand-blasting tank seemed a little too expensive for my one time need, but I found this garden sprayer-based DIY Pressurized Fluid Dispenser on YouTube (

) which seemed much more affordable. He seems to be using it primarily as a means of pumping fluids into transmissions, etc., but the operating principles are the same as the unit sold by JEGS, above.

It turns out that The Fountainhead Group manufactures many brands of commonly available garden-type sprayers, including the highly rated Husqvarna brand. My local Lowes has 2 Husqvarna garden sprayers, one rated at 80 psi (Shop Husqvarna 2-Gallon Plastic Tank Sprayer at Lowes.com) and a heavier-duty backpack model rated at 150 psi (Shop Husqvarna 4-Gallon Plastic Tank Sprayer with Should Strap at Lowes.com). I'd like to use the less expensive 80 psi, 2-gallon Husqvarna sprayer as the basis for a pre-luber, replacing the hose and nozzles with the appropriate hardware to connect to my Slingshot 2.4L motor.

Using the GM LS engines as an example, it appears the most common point to connect a pre-luber is an oil plug at the front of the motor near the oil filter as shown in this article from Hot Rod magazine - Pit Stop - How to Prelube a GM LS Engine - Hot Rod Network. [The Hot Rod pre-luber is a drill-pump-driven pre-luber that actually recirculates oil from the oil pan into the pre-luber, but using an air-pressurized pre-luber (compressor or hand pump) doesn't allow for the re-circulation feature since the air pressure in the pre-luber tank would prevent the oil from draining from the oil pan, forcing air from the pre-luber tank into the oil pan and disrupting the pre-lube process.]

My question is where to connect the pre-luber to the Slingshot's motor? Generally, most articles refer to a connection point low on the engine block, usually by removing the oi pressure sending switch/sensor or an oil plug. The most easily accessible oil plugs on the Slingshot motor are the port used for the turbo oil feed connection and the oil plug @Dave@DDMWorks referred to above at the back of the motor, centered just under the valve cover. Since I already have the oil feed line disconnected from my earlier test to see if oil was flowing, would it be safe to use the oil feed line to feed oil back into the motor? Normally, oil would be flowing out of this connection to the turbo instead of back in. My main goal in using a pre-luber is to ensure that oil is indeed in the oil pump so the pump is primed and ready to supply oil when I the start the motor.

I am trying to take my time as I would like to minimize chances of damaging my engine at startup. After multiple tries to use the starter turning over the motor ha not indicated oil is flowing, I feel the need to try to pre-luber. Of course, having my Daughter's motor seize a day or so after she replaced her leaking oil pan gasket has increased my paranoia and I would like to avoid the need to replace my motor if at all possible since the expense would severely imp[act my budget at this time!

I found this thread a little confusing. I'm not trying to ding the OP, but why is it even necessary to ask for replacements from forum members? Is Twist Dynamics not providing support for their product? A support bracket shouldn't be breaking even if it comes slightly loose, especially since losing something like a wing could have devastating results at Interstate speeds. If the brackets do have a tendency to break under normal usage, I'd think TD would step up and correct the problem.

As the article asks - What happens when someone decides to revoke registration of modified vehicles? Who determines what is an acceptable mod? What about TCs or SCs? Retroactive registration revocation is a very slippery slope.

Texan Dickheads Are Revoking Titles for Kit Cars and Dune Buggies

Now, my main concern is verifying that the oil pump is actually pumping oil. I'm trying to figure out how to use a pre-luber and hook it up to the Ecotec 2.4L engine. Here's that thread - Question about oil pressure when starting engine after several months of non-use

I originally found this story thru an email from Kim Komando.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that some folks running the Hahn setup preferred the Alpha reflash. I assume Bob reflashed my ECU with the Hahn setup.

Fudge! I disconnected the turbo oil feed line and stuck it into a 2L soda bottle and then hit the start button and cycled thru 4 start cycles. Unfortunately, I never saw any oil come out of the turbo oil feed line. Since I have now gone thru the start cycle 8 times (4 today and 4 more times a few weeks ago), I'm becoming concerned that oil is not getting sucked thru the oil intake tube in the oil pan and into the pump.

I admit I'm not overly anxious to spending the money for a pressurized oil priming system, but spending the money to force oil thru the system sounds a lot more appealing to me than taking everything off again so I can pull the pan to check the oil intake tube push-fit into the oil pan intake passage.

My concern about the oil pump not getting oil goes to this statement in the Polaris SLingshot Service Manual - "IMPORTANT: The oil pan baffle and pickup screen are not removable from the oil pan." My Hahn oil pan came without the baffle/oil intake tube, so I had to transplant my old intake/baffle into the new modded pan from Hahn.

Before I end up uninstalling the turbo/exhaust so I can pull the oil pan again and check the oil intake tube connection, anybody have any alternatives that might let me know if the oil pump is properly pumping oil? I can try going thru the start cycle a few more times, but I am concerned about possible damage since I don't know if any oil is available to lube the engine parts.

Quote from Orangeman

I would agree with you on 99% of vehicles on the road but the Slingshot is unique in that the rubber boot at the throttle body seems designed to restrict airflow. Not only does it neck down and has a flimsy 90 degree turn with convolutions causing turbulence at the throttle plate but you can watch it collapse when heavy throttle is applied.

I never expected a noticeable top end power increase with the Alpha intake alone (it was my first mod) but did expect better throttle response and drivability. It did not disappoint. As I suspect any that correct the airflow to the throttle body would.

.....

Hahn's thick metal plenum design looked to me to be a sound, well-thought-out solution to getting a good seal and was a major factor in selecting the Hahn CAI and later the Hahn turbo. I must admit however, that I was also impressed with the DIY air intake I later saw on one of the forums that cost less than $150 with off-the-shelf parts and a cobra-head rubber boot for the transition from intake tube to the TB.

Quote from Dave@DDMWorks

When installing new engines or doing the oil cooler installs, we remove the plug on the back of the cylinder head. There is a plug on the back of the cylinder head that needs a 6mm allen key to remove in the center. Once you remove this plug, disconnect the fuel injector electrical plug that @rabtech mentioned and then turn the engine over. For us it typically takes around 3 key cycles for oil to come out of that hole in the cylinder head, also typically you can start to hear an audible difference in how the engine is turning over. Once you get oil out of the back of the cylinder head, go ahead and put the plug back in and tighten it up. That makes sure you do have oil up to the cylinder head and the bottom of the engine is primed. In your case you could leave the oil feed off of the turbo also to make sure that you have oil going to it, but if you have oil out the back of the head, there should be oil at the turbo since that line comes off of the main bearing supply to the bottom of the engine.

Hope that helps,
Dave

Thanks. my Daughter and I were just discussing disconnecting the turbo oil feed line so I could see if oil was flowing thru the system. That seems to be the easiest way to check for oil movement. My biggest fear was that I didn't have a good push-fit of the oil intake tube into the oil pan and wasn't getting oil to the pump. Hopefully, I can see some oil movement and not have to remove everything just to pull the oil pan and check the oil intake tube! Going to go try that now.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit that it's taken me over 4 months of on/off effort to get my Hahn turbo installed. Because it's been sitting so long w/o being started, and the oil pan was off for about 1.5 months or so, allowing plenty of time for oil to drain away from the internals, I'm concerned about making sure I have the oil pump primed so that oil flow is quickly restored to the engine.

As part of my install, I replaced my oil pan with a pre-modded oil pan from Hahn and had to transfer the oil pickup tube from my old pan to the modded pan. Not seeing any evidence of any sealer on the tip of the oil pickup tube, I relied on the oil pickup tube just being a jam-fit into the oil pan. When reinstalling the modded pan, I made sure to place gasket material around the perimeter of the oil pan and around the oil pickup opening that connects to the block as directed.

Per a suggestion from @rabtech, I did the following after I got the turbo oil lines hooked up (but before the engine was ready for a test-start). "First thing.... before you start an engine that has not been started in a while you can unplug the harness that feeds the fuel injectors and coils and then hold your starter button in till it stops cranking. Do this two or three times to prime the oil."
After doing this, I disconnected the turbo oil lines to reclock the turbo so the drain line was as close to vertical as I could get it since I had allowed it to slip during the initial clocking process. At that time, I noticed that there was no sign of any oil having made it into the turbo. This has caused me to worry that oil might not have gotten properly sucked up the oil intake tube, possibly causing the oil pump to not have maintained oil flow.

Having read similar advice on various auto forums, I think @rabtech's advice is sound, but I am disturbed that I didn't see any evidence of oil flow during the attempted priming session. In the old days, the oil pump was driven off the distributor and could be turned manually to prime the oil pump , but with crankshaft-driven oil pumps on modern FI systems, the oil pump needs to be either primed using the method @rabtech quoted or some type of pressure system is used to get oil circulated thru the engine before starting the engine, or you can just start everything up and hope for the best.

Anybody know of any other solutions to ensure I have oil flowing thru the engine? Am I just overthinking this? I know engines can be allowed to sit for months and then start easily, but I just worry about whether or not the oil pump might have lost prime while the oil pan was off.

I've thought about squirting a little fogging oil into the cylinders since I need to replace the spark plugs anyway. This might help protect the cylinder walls/rings, but I'd prefer to know oil is actually flowing thru the pump.

I plan on trying @rabtech's method again, but I am a little concerned about too many engine revolutions if there is not enough oil in the lines.

This is one of those situations where a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing (paranoia) and I just don't want to think I've done everything correctly only to have the engine go BOOM!

Constructive/encouraging comments appreciated, but please don't further fuel my paranoia!

I still want to hook up my AFR/Boost gauge before I start the engine, so I have a few days.

The center-feed fuel rail looks nice and should be better than the stock rail, but may not really be needed unless running extra boost demanding more fuel.

Question for the folks complaining about bucking - Are you still running the factory coil-overs? Some folks have referred to slight irregularities in the road surface and before I installed my Bilstein coil-overs, my rear wheel didn't always stay planted , especially when crossing RR tracks.

What really grabbed me about the story was when he charged into the ocean in full combat gear after he saw a woman apparently drowning about 1/2 mile offshore! Turns out she was trying to kill herself and he had to overcome her resistance to his rescue efforts. Definitely a hero not hesitating when he sees someone at risk!