Posts by kev

  • SEE WHAT TESTING POLARIS HAD TO GO THROUGH TO CERTIFY COMPLIANCE OF THE SLINGSHOTS BRAKING SYSTEM

    I,ve been curious as to what braking tests Polaris had to go through to certify their brakes are in compliance with FMVSS (federal motor vehicle safety standards) Standard #122 Motorcycle Brake Sytems.


    What does FMVSSS standard #122 motorcycle brake systems say, here is the link for the actual seven pages of text for that standard, outlining braking systems required and required tests Keep in mind its the actual legal lanqage so not near as informative as the 117 page guide for that testing I will also link below
    CFR-2011-title49-vol6-sec571-122.pdf



    Much more interesting to read is this NHTSA 117 page document actually explaining all the tests a manufacturer must perform to certify compliance with braking standard #122 of FMVSS. wet tests, high speed test, fade tests , burnishing tests etc This is what Polaris had to do and submit in order to be in compliance , the type of motorcycle the Slingshot is classified as in this document is a three wheeled motorcycle category 3-5. You will see they did have to state their GVWR and GFAW and GRAW that they were certifying to . AND you will see it is very rigorous and detailed, and all the different tests (wet, dry, fade, burnishing etc) The Slingshot met.
    tp-122-03.pdf

  • Motorcycle classification weight

    Its such an interesting read I think Im going to give it its own thread, I think a lot more people, than reading this thread would be curious to know what kind of testing Polaris had to do to certify compliance for the Slingshot,s brakes

  • Motorcycle classification weight

    What testing did Polaris have to go through for brakes

    Ok Bkl I.ll help you out, here is only a sample but its the interesting section ,
    What does FMVSSS standard #122 motorcycle brake systems say, here is the link for the actual seven pages of text for that standard, outlining braking systems required and required tests Keep in mind its the actual legal lanqage so not near as informative as the 117 page guide for that testing I will also link below
    CFR-2011-title49-vol6-sec571-122.pdf


    Much more interesting to read is this NHTSA 117 page document actually explaining all the tests a manufacturer must perform to certify compliance with braking standard #122 of FMVSS. wet tests, high speed test, fade tests , burnishing tests etc This is what Polaris had to do and submit in order to be in compliance , the type of motorcycle the Slingshot is classified as in this document is a three wheeled motorcycle category 3-5. You will see they did have to state their GVWR and GFAW and GRAW that they were certifying to . AND you will see it is very rigorous, detailed, and with a number of tests The Slingshot met.
    tp-122-03.pdf

  • Motorcycle classification weight

    Well if you study the standards and acts in detail you will see they only have to be less than 2200 lbs gvwr. that's why coincidentally they are 2199 and Polaris has told you time and time again they are at the Max. However @BKL it's not as simple as looking at the FMVSS the guide to those affecting motorcycle maufactures above when you find the standards, they are only a generic paragraph description, you need to purchase the full text versions of that publication at a few hundred dollars. But there is government site where all U.S.laws regs, etc must be publicly published in full text called the federal register I linked above . But you will need days to learn how to navigate that bitch, use advanced search options to narrow your search but even they are almost useless. So why not just trust polaris when they tell you and I have confirmed in the Canadian gov links posted above, the certification requirements are for gvwr and gross axle weights. People have to stop imagining there is an empty weight certification requirement . It simply is not so . Polaris needs to stay about 1750 curb weight so they will still have 40 lbs belly fat room for guys who actually weigh over the standard which is 175 lbs for each seat. Stop panicking this is the same. with all motorcycle manufacturers . Buy a loaded road glide Harley fill it full of options bags etc and you will be over gvwr when you put two passengers on at 250 each. And what I say by stop panicking @big dog, operating a passenger vehicle over gvwr is not illegal .it's just a liability you assume when you do so. ONLY commercial operators (truck drivers ) are bound by law to calculate their axle weights and that they are in accordance with those and gvwr before each load leaves the yard. Those are log book requirements and are legally required by state laws prior to each load hauled and it can be done because every load of freight has to have weight on bill of laden. because state laws require any person operating a commercial vehicke to calculate these daily it is illegal for them to operate a transport truck above gvwr of axle weight. There is no state law I know of that says little old harriet down the street who only drives to church on sundays must weigh her grocery bags individually and stack of bibles before she heads home on sundays. To say it is illegal to operate a slingshot over gvwr simply is not so untill your state passes legislatuon requiring little old harriet to perform gvwr calculations before each mornings drive to make sure she isnt overloading her 1985 three cylinder grocery getter. It simply is not practical for regulators to require harriet to know the individual weight of her nine grocery bags .So no law exist that says every operator of a passenger vehicle or motorcycle must know her gvwr and perform calculations daily to make sure she is never exceeding them. It may not technically be right to operate a slingshot over the gvwr but until such time as a law comes into place requiring you to calculate your loaded axle weights And gvwr daily prior to leaving the yard as truck drivers are required to do, you are not breaking any law when you and little old harriet drive your passenger vehiclea without doing so. So adding options and operating a slinshot at a higher gvwr is NOT ILLEGAL. just know you will not be able to blame Polaris for the fact it takes longer to stop when heavily loaded and drive accordingly. Don't you see, as in Polaris email response to @BKL above they are telling you there are gvwr they certified too, but they, nor Harley Davidson nor Uhaul are ever going to go to press promoting that their vehicles can be easily overloaded, its bad for sales and theres no law requiring them to do so. Every single uhaul truck on the road can be loaded over axle weight and gvwr if loaded heavily and in that case and only that case , not passenger vehicle operators, a non commercial driver can be fined for exceeding the weights allowed on their commercial truck but only because the appropriate State laws say every operator of a commercial vehicle must not exceed these. Slingshot operator's loaded with options and two people exceeding the individual axle weights or gvwr cannot be fined for doing so as the states do not mandate that little old harriet weigh her grocery bags daily . And untill they do Harriet and slinshotters are not breaking any law operating over theae weights. Stop the panick train. PLEASE some of us supposedly criminally minded aftermarket manufacturers still need to make a living ! lol

  • Motorcycle classification weight

    Well you asked for it so here it is , make sure you study it all ! The empty weight of any motorcycle is not the limiting factor as far as regulations and certifications, its the GVWR . if you check your compliance label you will see Polaris has a published GVWR of 2199 lbs . This is because the maximum motorcycle gross weight for certifying they are in compliance with the F.M.V.S.S. (federal motor vehicle safety standards) and their appropriate motorcycle manufacturer sections is 2200 lbs or in Canada 1,000 kgs. and for the purpose of calculating GVWR manufacturers have to use a standardized person weight , this also includes aircraft manufacturers , and all manufacturers of anything under the Department Of Transportation. That magic standard number is 175 lbs per person (or seat) . they must also include an allowance for fuel and luggage.
    So when you work the equation backwards, Polaris,s certifies they don't exceed the 2200 lb maximum by carrying two passengers at the required standard of 175 = 350 lbs , 60 LBS for fuel and 40 lbs for luggage, (this can be actual luggage or options or extra belly fat exceeding 175 lbs) which leaves an empty weight (curb weight) of 1750 lbs. So there you have the reason Polaris will always be limited to 1750 lbs curb weight. For the purpose of certifying compliance they only have to use the curb weight of their standard models , and standard weight persons, and an allowance for luggage or overweight , options or persons. it would be impossible for any manufacturer to know how many options or bellyfat lbs an operator may operate at , so therefore they cover Thine ASS, with written disclaimers on all their accessories pages that it is the operators responsibility to operate in accordance with the GVWR


    Resources, this is where it gets mind boggling, keep in mind it is not just the FMVSS there are also any number of pieces of legislation or Acts as well as their appropriate, constantly evloving Regulations, I will link and list the most applicable here including f.M.V.S.S.But the definition of motorcycle in F.M.V.S.S.is currently evolving with applied for regs that aim to exclude three wheel vehicles like the Elio and others currently being imported form overseas because they have , doors, hinges, and operating side windows, and fully enclosed. meaning they claim those are too much a car to be considered an auto cycle. I will link that proposed Reg.
    I will aslso quote and link an agreement between Japen ,U.S.A. and CANADA AND OTHERS to all use the same standards as your F.M.V.S.S. I will link CANADAS AND YOU WILL SEE THEY ARE THE IDENTICAL STANDARDS. These countries all in agreement to manufacture within the same F.M.V.S.S. So are all honoured in each others countries. that's why Slingshots built in Alabama can be sold in Canada without question and Spyders BUILT IN Canada can be sold in U.S.A without question and a whole slew of Japaneese motorcycles .


    So since the U.S. currently changing definition of motorcycle and autocycle is still evolving I WILL LINK THE ALREADY spelled OUT AND LINKED, MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT, OF THE MUCH MORE ADVANCED COUNTRY KNOWN AS CANADA !! just joking ! RELAX ! It clearly defines already the motorcycle tricycle (spyders) and auto cycle , known to us as a three wheel motorcycle , as both having a clearly spelled out GVWR of 1000 kgs (2200 lbs) and keep in mind Since Canada is party to the F.M.V.S.S. agreement these GVWR limits are in accordance with the same F.M.V.S.S. the U.S. applies, Therefore all CANADIAN MANUFACTURERS AND POLARIS ARE ALREADY CERTIFYING AND MAUFACTURING TO THIS G.V.W.R. max of 2200 lbs as we already know how to read and properly publish them (just joking again but you get the point) .


    RESOURCES


    link to federal register to view any sections of F.M.V.S.S. (hard to navigate)
    Federal Register
    ::
    Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards; Motorcycle Brake Systems; Motorcycle Controls and Displays


    LINKto U.S. F.M.V.S.S.that pertain to motorcycle manufacturing
    mcpkg002.pdf


    site for regulation , applying to change U.S.MOTORCYLE DEF TO EXCLUDE ELIO TYP THREE WHEELERS
    View Rule



    Canadas, vehicle safety act defining motor tricycles, (spyders) AS HAVING 1000 KG GVWR
    Also defining our autocyles category, as three wheel vehicle,(SLINGSHOTS) AS HAVING 1000 KG GVWR


    Canadas C.M.V.S.S. this Canadian chart shows all the motorcycle standards from motorcycle manufacturing .F.M.V.S.S.. are identical to the CANADIAN MOTORCYCLE ONES and if you study the Canadian chart you will see which ones apply to motortricycles (spyders) and which ones apply to three wheel vehicles (slingshots) your autocycles.
    Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations





    Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations
    C.R.C., c. 1038
    MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT
    Regulations Respecting Safety for Motor Vehicles and Motor Vehicle Components
    Short Title
    1 These Regulations may be cited as the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations.
    [*]three-wheeled vehicle means a vehicle, other than a competition vehicle, an antique reproduction vehicle, a motorcycle, a restricted-use motorcycle, a trailer or a vehicle imported temporarily for special purposes, that

    • (a) is designed to travel on three wheels in contact with the ground,
    • (b) has no more than four designated seating positions, and
    • (c) has a GVWR of 1 000 kg or less; (véhicule à trois roues)

    [/list] [*]motor tricycle means a motorcycle, other than an antique reproduction vehicle, that

    • (a) is designed to travel on three wheels in contact with the ground,
    • (b) has seating on which all occupants must sit astride,
    • (c) has no more than four designated seating positions,
    • (d) has a GVWR of 1 000 kg or less; and
    • (e) does not have a structure partially or fully enclosing the driver and passenger, other than that part of the vehicle forward of the driver’s torso and the seat backrest; (tricycle à moteur)

    [/list]

  • Great buy if looking for Polaris Premium Wheels/Tires

    if anybody wants a smoking deal on an almost brand new set of base rims and tires 17 and 18 , one of my new slingshade windshield customers, bruce wayne on TDS has just upgraded to larger ones with only 5oo miles on his new slingshot see his thread there , Brand new base wheels $250.00 (Chicago )


    Surely somebody within an hour or two of Chicago has a base Slingshot and wheels ? your going to have to replace the rubber some day and you get these like new rims too! these are now down to $ 175.00 only five hundred miles on them !

  • NEW WINDSHIELD FOR NEW SLINGSHADES and check out the fit on that Twist, Gullwing Top !

    I keep forgetting to take the wireless mag lights out after towing and end up running all over town looking like a farm truck , people have actually reminded me by saying, "oh those look nice " and its another Oh Shit moment for me ! Did it when I introduced myself to @Noel Hughes at Cycle Springs last spring, but he just chuckled and said what the hell are those ? Liked it enough, he gave me a wonderful tour of his entire operation and a busy one it is, at that ! There were numerous Slings out back sporting every possible mod known to man ! The man knows how to sell Slingshots !

  • How To: Group Ride

    Hey @Ross Loved your rule #6 no rider left behind, . we do a lot of snowmobiling up here in Ontario and especially trails in Northern Ontario can go for an hour or two without even seeing civilization or another group, so its especially important for us to follow that rule . Breaking down or crashing on a dark trail in -25 weather can be no fun when you happen to be the last sledder and the cement heads out front are to stupid to stick to that rule. I know, laying against the base of a tree with a sled on your back for over 40 minutes is no fun, fortunately I was one of the cement heads that night and when we finally stopped five miles down the trail , then waited ten minutes for him to catch up then suddenly realizing how stupid we were we headed back , luckily my brother was only banged up and not in critical condition so we all got an earfull when we finally rescued him. Since then we all stick to that rule religiously and it absolutely works well, not only in accident situations but as you mentioned , just in slowing down the pac if a few get too carried away. We always ride at night cause the added luxury of headlights busting through the trees in front of you is so many times a lifesaver AS THE GROOMED TRAILS ARE ONLY TYPICALLY EIGHT FT WIDE and trying to ride them through the tree laden twisties at high speed in the day time is just suicidal ! and for that matter most trail groomers only run at night too because their flashing lights can be seen coming through the trees at night and they too can see headlights usually in advance in enough time to get everyone stopped. And of course it helps with rule 6 at night as you can go like hell through twisties etc and only have to catch a glimpse of a headlight in your mirrors to know its ok to continue at breakneck speeds ! Its a damn good rule and everybody can benefit from it .

  • NEW WINDSHIELD FOR NEW SLINGSHADES and check out the fit on that Twist, Gullwing Top !

    Quote from MACAWS

    @kev


    Do you make a version close to the shorter stock blade height?

    Yah sure , cause in the hot summer I prefer, like others, to look over, not through the polycarbonate. Hence my sportster version , while still using our NASCAR STYLED fibreglass base it is still more aerodynamically correct and makes for a smoother airflow across the cockpit however its the same height as the basic blade, I never realized I forgot to post pics of it on my website but its there now, on my windshields page , under Sportster, heading. I also then like to just replace the lens on the same base with my taller one come cooler months.

  • NEW WINDSHIELD FOR NEW SLINGSHADES and check out the fit on that Twist, Gullwing Top !

    Quote from Nemesis1701

    one question @kev you may now the answer may have even been posted already...What did polaris change to accommodate the top weight? Not that im impressed with the top ..looks cool but very thin... I see myself breaking the locks on the first night.

    To the best of my knowledge they didn't change anything nor do they have to, the Regs that define motorcyle manufacturing in THE U.S.A. or Canada are virtually the same almost word for word, just kilos verses pounds but the numbers are the same. The top is not sold as standard equipment therefore no manufacturer has to include its weight in their filings for complying with the Regs. With regards to the Regs (regulations) THE MAXIMUM GROSS VEHICLE Weight and Front and BACK AXLE WEIGHTS ( GVWR and GAWR) that it should be operated at is determined by , what weight it can be operated at, when sold new, with standard equipment on board. Not, might be operated at someday, down the road, You see no manufacturer can control what mods are done once it leaves the dealers showroom floor , and even if the slingshade and other mods are added there, It legally remains the operators responsibility to then, only load the vehicle accordingly, so that the Gross vehicle weight and axle weights AS STATED on the compliance label, are not exceeded when operating, . You and I know, these weights get exceeded everyday on modified vehicles (including Harleys, SPYDERS, ETC ) but the manufacturer uses "cover thine ass" language in its purchase agreements and advertisements. you will notice the disclaimer , waiver, notice, whichever you want to call it, on the bottom of all Polaris accessories website pages which states (amongst other things) " When adding accessories, equipment, passengers and luggage to your vehicle, do not exceed the total weight capacity of the vehicle or of the front or rear axle GVWR or GAWR, as indicated on the Safety Compliance Certification label)."


    So legally they have told you, its ok to add 100 lbs of top etc BUT its your responsibility to then lower your loading ( passenger, fuel, luggage weight etc) accordingly, to not exceed the stated gross weights and /or axle weights. Again , you and I and Polaris knows this isn't going to happen, but they have covered there asses !


    So basically its, MOD AWAY, just know you do so at your own risk and responsibility. There,s no blaming somebody else down the road for your own decisions. if your loaded heavily and don't drive accordingly, there may be consequences. It would be nice to be able to blame the weight of our own lead foot on somebody else but again its something we are supposed to take into account for. its just that @Slingrazor and others can,t add !!! lmao.

  • NEW WINDSHIELD FOR NEW SLINGSHADES and check out the fit on that Twist, Gullwing Top !

    a big shout out to techneglas of Perrysburg Ohio. I recently attended a meeting in Perrysburg where the head of sales and the head technical rep (a chemist , i believe) Actually took the time to not only give me a complete product demonstration but had previously blended and applied to a polycarbonate sample ( as per my specifications and application )their proposed hardcoat. Needless to say I was blown away by the customer service and technical expertise available to an inquiring small windshield manufacturer and expressed this sincerely. Their response was at, at techneglass all our assets ,research and engineering expertise are available to all customers big or small ! And I can certainly attest to their sincerity in that mission statement. As one of North America's largest manufacturers of glass resin coatings in the semi conductor, diode and solar cell industries, their technicall expertise is unparralled ! And I am only too proud to announce all of our windshields going forward will be hardcoated, both sides using their patented technologies. Their hardcoat is a silicon based hardcoat and baked on to permanently provide, not only the most abrasion resistant hardcoating but also custom blended to our specifictions to provide U.V.inhibitors as well as optical clarity.! They were only too happy to provide me with 1000 grit steel wool and let me attack their sample . Without a doubt our new windshields will pass the infamous steel wool test and provide the strongest polycrbonate substrate available with the utmost in U.V protection and optical clarity ! Combined with the absence of factory bends, as our new fibreglass windshield base provides the stability required, hence the optical clarity simply is not distorted anywhere ! All previous purchasers of our chemically sealed windshields have been contacted and will be provided with a new lens providing these latest advancements in polycarbonate hardcoats . Thank you Techneglas.

  • NEW WINDSHIELD FOR NEW SLINGSHADES and check out the fit on that Twist, Gullwing Top !

    yes @Neosolidus.both the f4 custom windshield manufacturer and I are firm believers in the benefits of polycarbonate verses acrylic.the two are not even comparable in strength. Most acrylics being ten to twenty times stronger than plate glass while polycarbonates are some 200 to 250 times stronger ! And for safety reasons the polycarbonate wins hands down again as it is not near as brittle and is widely chosen by the safety glasses industry for that reason. It is almost impact resistant while acrylic is easily shattered by a single blow. The downfalls of polycarbonate verses acrylic are poly is the softer material and tends to scratch easier and tends to discolor over time due to U.V. rays. Hence the most reputable polycarbonate windshield manufacturers such as F4 (and now myself,see next post) use a baked on hardcoating to vastly enhance the abrasion resistance of polycarbonate . F4,s website is a great source of info for this topic and you can witness their infamous steel wool test demonstrating the scratch resistance of polycarbonate with these baked on hardcoats