Posts by samowens44

To all that have posted you feelings about the first day of the trial. The day has been spent debating calling Wittinesses. I see I am the only person that wants to hear them. I realize now that trump supporters would support the cause to block all truth. I respect your decisions as that is what freedom means. Under no circumstance will I look away and say it is ok with me. I think we are at a deadlock. For this part of the trial.

Let’s see what we debate next. It is a lonely place I find with my views, but I am strong for our checks and balances to work. I have one vote and that is just as powerful as anyone else’s.

Members, I will see you back tomorrow at 1 pm.

Evidence is being presented from the wittiness testimony. Do you think these dedicated career people were lying? Myself, I did not see a reason why they would do that. So many supported each other about their testimony. What is your position on this?

One of the Officials was fired because she would not support the presidents positions to pressure the Ukrainian leader to do the presidents favors.

Quote from Frankie55

Hello Sam,

First thanks for all the great videos. I've watched them from when I first purchased my slingshot 2 years ago!

I respect your views. I am also fearful this will lead down a path to complete government gridlock allowing every opportunity to peruse impeachment for political gain. It may also arrest executive privilege. Very dangerous to give that away. I believe President Trump is not a politician but acts as a business person. He gets things done. I like that. It's refreshing.

I does appear that he mentioned looking into Hunter Biden and corruption. (My opinion it was quid pro quo on Senator Biden) but that's opinion. It also appears as though Ukraine did get the aid. It can be said that Ukraine only got the aid after some pressure. But Ukraine did get the aid package.

Was it only through pressure? That's opinion. Perhaps witnesses could be brought into play that will bring up strong arm tactics. Honestly, unless this impeachment trial turns up something drastic it's not what I would consider grounds for impeachment. Here is my reasoning why.

He is a business person with a hard driven personality very focused on getting things done. He ran for office on that. Using the NY Skating ring as a prime example. His hard driven personality extends into all parts of his life. If you have ever watched the show on the history channel "The Men Who Built America" he has appearances as a commentator on the show (great show). It's seems to be a matter of opinion but from my view he has been constantly attacked by the democratic party from day one. Again from my view the dossier was over the top and in itself involved in controversy. He's going to hit back. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Given his track record of providing aid I honestly don't believe President Trump would have withheld the money even if no inquiry was done, and none was done prior to the aid being delivered. My opinion he feels he has been wrongly attacked and a request for an inquiry as to why the investigation into the energy company was halted by Senator Biden was appropriate.

Understood your concerns. But I also have great concerns over the need for executive privilege and what the erosion of it would cause. So... given the history of President Trump, the unique circumstances and the History of attacks (my opinion). I'm not concerned that tis is any pattern but a unique situation that warrants a warning that you are being watched and an election is just down the road.

My opinion. It doesn't reach the level of impeachment.

Two cents

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I appreciate the kind remarks about my video. I can see your comments are of a defense of the President and his tactics. How he is not a average type president that we are used to. I have heard the Republican House representative project the same defense. I am concerned that this not something I can support. I feel, evidence should not be withheld in any way.

I feel we differ in our views of a president that can do anything he wants. There may be other things done wrong that have not come out. This whole thing came to our attention by a Whistle Blower. I bet no other person will blow the whistle on any other thing in the future. I feel, this whole thing has restored people to voice wrong doing. We will not in the future not be warned of anything because of fear of just what has happened.

Just stating how I feel, I still respect your view and others.

What are the reasons for not hearing witnesses. I guess, I am the only one that wants to hear them. I still have not hear a point of view for why the witnesses should not be heard. I will take it that it may be damaging to the president. It is the only reason available to a rational thinking persons without any other presented.

I would like to hear from any witness the present has to present. I want to hear it all, both sides.

I followed the House Inquiry into all this, they asked for documents and subpoenaed lots of White House members. They were denied. I want to hear evidence by one particular Previous Cabinet Member, John Bolton along with other members of his cabinet. Folks future presidents will know from what we decide now that they can do anything they want and they can block anything that does not favor their sided. Now let me hear your argument for that. I feel that is totally wrong.

I saw many wittnesses testify about their knowledge of how the president did things that were totally wrong. They took huge risk to stand up to this president to testify. Future people are going to be reluctant to report any wrong doing. God help us we are headed down a path of fear to bring forth knowledge of wrong doing in the future. What person would want to be subjected to this. With that said, there are no check going forward from this point forward. Anyone can do whatever and no report because of fear. Folks, I for one, never wanted a nation where fear is a driving force. I am 76 and this will not bother me, I am thinking of the future and how this trial will determine the future direction of what a president can do and how the evidence will be blocked and witnesses will be condemned. Democrocy has to be protected beyond all else. Not that a president is doing all the things the people want, but is he doing it with in the constitutional condition. When we get a president that is used to getting what he wants with any methods he determines necessary. We are opening up a very bad road for our future presidents to follow.

Please tell me why I am wrong.

Looks like it has started, Majority and minority leaders have give opening statements. No witness to be heard. I am disappointed that future presidents will know, they can do anything they want and they can block anything that would not be in their favor. This is unbelievable unfair. My opinion and I base it on I want to know the truth from whatever source and it will not be available. I want to hear the defense for why the public would agree to this. Please help me understand. The thread is open for discussion as the trail has officially started.

Members we are close to the start. All should find a viewing location, if you have not found one, Here is an online link for CBSN for full trial viewing.

https://www.cbsnews.com/live/

All get ready to debate what if presented. We will all hear it the same way, let's present our views and why we feel the way we do. We are past any comments of pretrial thoughts. We are all fresh and ready to listen and respond with our comments as the a point come to interest for discussion.

If new folks have arrived, please vote on the Impeachment Question Poll as you feel now. As we go through the trial you feel different about a question, you can change your vote on the poll. Only one question can be changed at a time.

Here is the way the poll stands near the beginning of trial.

Link to poll

Impeachment, let your Senator Know

My view of the new 2020 Slingshot! I like the light treatment!

Quote from WOLF

I heard this morning that any vote for new witnesses and/or evidence won't happen until next week.

Will be waiting then, thanks for update.

Welcome members to a historic moment in the history of our nation. The Impeachment Trial of the President will begin at 1 pm. Find a viewing location for the trial, or if you can listen, and prepare to debate the testimony presented in the Trial.

I am very interested in hearing any new witnesses that have testimony to share about the charges for impeachment. To not hear all testimony leaves me with uncertainty. I can not understand why anyone would not want to hear it.

Folks, this is a key question that will come up in the trial, a key point for us to state our positions. The people of the nation deserve to hear everything, good and bad about the charges. I saw many times that the house asked for witnesses and documents from the White House. I wanted all request to be honored, none were. I feel robbed of the real truth. We are now at a new phase of the Impeachment Process and I do not see why we can not see and hear what was blocked in the House debates. I am a Registered Republican and still want to hear all the testimony.

So, let's see how this plays out.

We are all friends and we are just stating our views as we see them. Back here after 1pm and all be ready to state your positions and why. Thanks for participating.

Bill Martin, same respect back to you, I have seen the type of comments on Politics Sucks Thread support this same line of comment. "Why is this happening, let him do his thing. I like my stock market increases and the wall and keep gun on our hips. I don't care what he does, he is what I want in a president."

Bill, when we say we don't care what he does to reach goals he sets for our country, we are headed for dictator type control. We never want to open a door that will allow a president to do what ever to satisfy some of the people. We have future presidents that may have other ideas of their interest and not in our best interest. That is what I am worried about.

I feel, we are at a crossroads of a test of our constitution. Separation of powers and each branch is at the forefront to see, does congress have a power over a president or can he with hold congress approved funds.

Now we are going to see the evidence presented for those charges, I hope we can get all witnesses that can help prove one way or another. It is as simple as that. I am totally for our constitution and the process laid out by our founding fathers.

My point about being open minded, is we go into the trial and debate the facts. I think we can do it. I feel a trial is a presentation of facts that support a position for one side and the other side tries to disprove or discrete those facts. Facts don't lie, people lie. Let's all observe and see where the lies and the facts cross paths. That is where our discussions will be important.

This will only work if we all have the same goal, seek the truth from what is presented. I know all of this can not be a lie, there have to be some truths and some lies, let's find them.

WOLF, you have an ally with you, thanks for that well done rebuttal with facts. Like you, I want to know all the facts and make judgement, it appears that a lot of folks just want to throw out a constitutional process of checks and balance. The high office of President of the United States is not Democrat or Republican. The Current President holding the office has to follow all rules when using his powers. This comes down to did he do it or not do it. It being, try to use his powers to influence the out come of an upcoming election that he is running for. The other charge was for obstruction of congress, not providing documents, I believe. Now folks, let's get on the direction of this thread.

We are going to debate the evidence presented in the trial. This is important to stay focused. During and after the Tuesdays opening statements, let's begin, debating the statements and facts as they are presented. State why you feel is is true or not true in your opinion. If you think President Trump has violated the points that are presented, say why and if you think he did not violate them, state your opinion as to why not. Present the supporting facts if possible. Let's be as brief as possible as we want to get points quickly and view all points made.

Please, guys and girls, we have an opportunity to all present our beliefs and back them up with facts that we can state either for or against. This is all based only on what we see and hear at the trial, nothing else.

This is not an argument, it is a discussion. Now, I will see all of you back here for the trial on Tuesday, at 1 pm.

Good luck on reaching the right decision and based on facts as you see them.

Remembers to vote the poll if you change your position at anytime. If a good question should be added to the poll, edit the poll and change quantity of votes to reflect the extra question.

Poll Link

Impeachment, let your Senator Know

Quote from WOLF

How soon you forget how crybaby adjacent your beloved Republicans were. You need to peek outside your party blinders brother.

https://time.com/3033757/poll-obama-impeached-third/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/trump-obama-impeachment-republicans-democrats-1466865%3famp=1

Many Republicans wanted Obama impeached for "not being a U.S. born citizen". As if Hillary and all the Dems wouldn't try to prove that, if it were true, to beat him. As if the Republicans wouldn't have tried to prove it, if it were true, to beat him. It takes a "special" person to believe none of those career politicians would quickly end Obama's chances IF IT WERE TRUE. There is one VERY SPECIAL person that believed that illogical nonsense until the day he replaced Obama. Trump: "Der Dar der , they need to impeach Obama. I'll give one million dollars to any charity he wants if he shows us his real birth certificate". Der Dar der".

Is that the "this low" you speak of, or is "this low" not as low and crybabyish as Trump's lows?

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Quote from WOLF

Pelosi and her pens: It is a historical moment, just like passing an executive order...Trump does the same multiple pens thing when he signs bills or executive orders. Obama did it, Bush did it. It's a momento that is given to those involved or sometimes affected by the action. Funinthesun it isn't an illegal gift or stealing, especially when a government owned pen is given to another government employee.

If people/senators listened to the House hearings it is very understandable that they have made up their minds already(those in The House did). Basically if they say he is innocent or guilty before the Senate trial begins, doesn't necessarily mean they are biased.

After the House hearings I would conclude from all the testimony that Trump told many people to "talk to Rudy", even to the President of Ukraine in the "perfect call". Rudy then told several of those that testified that, "Aid was to be withheld until the Ukranian President ANNOUNCES an investigation into the Biden's and Burisma"(the company Hunter Biden worked for) by order of President Trump. It would also seem all these Rudy conversations took place outside of the normal government channels, at times at odds with the official channels. Trump who infamously bashes anyone that slights him, has not said one bad thing about Rudy. That leads me to believe that Rudy was in fact speaking for Trump on this deal.

All of the witnesses the Republicans requested in the House investigation were requested to help prove Biden guilty of a crime. If Biden is guilty of a crime investigate him and prosecute him. Biden's guilt has no bearing on Trump's guilt. The House investigation showed that Trump was only seeking an ANNOUNCEMENT of the opening of an investigation into the Biden's and Burisma, not of ALL corruption in Ukraine as the Republicans and Trump claim. I do think Trump should allow all requested documents to be released and all the pertinent House requested witnesses to testify. I don't think the accused should be able to control what witnesses can be called and what documents can be seen. If he is as innocent as he claims, they could only help exonerate him. After hearing testimony during The House hearings, I know I would like to hear from Bolton, Mulvaney, Rudy and one other guy who's name escapes me right now.

The new evidence from Lev Parnas doesn't require that you trust him or his word. His words are backed up by email, text, WhatsApp and phone records.

I will be going into a anti media/ outside influence bubble once the trial begins and only be listening to or watching C-Span. I will see or hear the entire trial. That is what I did during the House hearings and I feel better informed because of it.

Here is the link to C-Span Radio so that all interested can listen when they are away from a television or Sirius satellite radio.

https://www.c-span.org/networks/?channel=radio

samowens44 I will change my votes during the trial, if new evidence is presented, but won't be able to participate in conversation about the trial during the trial.

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WOLF thanks for adding the link. I will be watching where I can receive it mostly on my computer. I was beginning to think I was the only one that wants all facts to come out.
Sorry to hear you will not be able to comment during trial, I hope all will listen or watch the trial if possible. As we learn new facts, all votes can be changed to reflect. I am not going to listen to any of the news commentaries, I am going to trial and hear just the facts from daily trial.

Hello members. I see there is a poll on this thread. I have tried to find it and no luck. What page is it on? As you may have seen, I have created a Poll on a new thread to cover the upcoming Senate Trial. I would like to post a link to the poll I have created. I would like to invite all watchers of this thread to participate as jurors for the trial. I will just post the poll here, you will also have access to my thread. I ask you to visit with an open mind to view the trial and we post our opinions of the evidence presented each day. You can edit questions to the poll, just change number of votes box towards bottom of form. At this point it is 4.

Thank you.

Impeachment, let your Senator Know

Happy Birthday EJ! Go for a joy ride.

The comments so far are the same as on Thread, Politics Sucks. I created this thread mainly to discuss the trial testimony after each day. We should go into it as jurors with an open mind to judge the facts presented. Everyone try to hold off till trial begins. When the trial begins on Tuesday, let’s all post comments about the testimony. The House has the constitutional duty of Impeachment, they have reached a point of charges against the President. The Senate now has the constitutional duty to hold a trial. This is not debatable. We are at the trial. Let’s be jurors and judge the facts presented. The prosecutor and defense have been selected. We the jurors are ready. Thanks, for participating.

Everyone should vote on the poll now. As the trial goes on, you have an option to change your vote for each question. I have tested the poll and found you can select multiple questions to vote, but can only change one vote at a time. Check your votes to be sure it works correctly for you. If you find issues let me know. We have folks voting already.

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Link to Poll for this thread. Post #3 on page 1.

Impeachment, let your Senator Know

Sorry folks, I wanted members to vote on all the areas that met their input on the poll. There are 5 questions and I had only one option that could be voted. In my effort to change the poll, I lost the votes that some members registered. I have input options for you to vote on each option and change the vote if circumstances lead to changing your mind as the trial goes on. Please go back and vote again if you already voted as I lost the votes tallied so far. You can input 5 vote options now.

Thanks for your understanding, we are at the beginning.

Tuesday 21st first day of trial. If you can view and be a juror for our Forum do so. I hope you take your sworn oath to judge without any predigest. Let's meet back on Tuesday, see ya!