thanks for the shout out
Added ZZP to the poll
The only sputtering I've experienced with my Hahn Stage 2 turbo system was some occasional sputtering under hard acceleration starting at 4000 rpms. It also seemed to occur when the gas tank was about half-full or less, so I feared a fuel pump problem. After running 2-3 cans of Sea foam over 4-6 fill-ups, the sputtering cleared up, so I guess the gas filter was a little clogged and the Sea Foam cleared it out.
Compared to AFR numbers I've seen others post, my AFR readings have always seemed a little high, with idle AFRs around 15-16 and going as high as 20-22 when I take my foot off the gas, but dropping down to 11-13 under hard acceleration.
Good Luck in sorting things out.
Those number seem good, stoichiometric ratio for gasoline is 14.7:1 so in close loop you should be bouncing around 14 to 15 or so. Foot off throttle with high vacuum is normal numbers. as well.
11-13 under acceleration is also good. Getting down to 10 would be very rich, above 13 would be getting to lean under WOT, lean blows motors.
Lean is mean, but rich is a bitch.
Now the question is, are they making any adjustments and if so, to the piggyback? Are you in stage 2x for that? I would think not. I believe Bill claimed 250 HP at the wheel. DDM was saying they were getting on average 12.5 HP for each PSI of boost. Bills was pushing peak of 8 for the stage 1, so that "should" give you between 80-100 HP added to the machine. I believe stock is 176... I think... So it should be a peak of 256-276HP at the wheel. My take is that Bill may have been on the "safe" side and probably didn't put that much time into the tune... don't know that, but a hunch. If you put stage 2, it will push it to just under 10, so should add another 20-25HP. I was hoping that someone could verify Bills tune.
I can't see the entire graph, but looks like the stock is coming in at just under 150HP at the wheel? Is that the case? If that is true, then the system is pushing an added 90HP, so 11.25/PSI. Almost what DDM was claiming. This is all assuming you are at stage 1 though.
Thanks for the info!
Which AEM FIC tune file was used for the posted Dyno graph?
There was the original tune and a modified tune file that I pushed Bill hard to get done.
2 questions please...
The people that are running the Stoptech big brakes how do you like them?
Does anybody know the individual Stoptech part numbers that make up the kits??
- Front rotor part numbers
- Front caliper part numbers
- Front pad part numbers
- Rear rotor part number
- Rear pad part numbers
- Any other parts that would be needed
I wish the poll had an option to select "NO choice available. I have to use E10 Premium gas."
I am unaware of any stations offering alcohol-free gasoline near my home or along the routes I normally drive, so I end up using 93 octane E10 fuel.
Now it's time for my rant.
The EPA, seemingly acting at behest of the corn alcohol lobby, continues to push for the introduction of E15 fuel. For reasons of economy, the EPA seems to be reluctant to require E15 be sold thru specialized pumps as is E85. This means the same pump hose might contain pure gasoline, E10 or E15. This means vehicles with smaller capacity gas tanks may inadvertently end up with a large amount of E15 fuel from the hose mixing with their gas, possibly resulting in a higher blend ratio for which their engine may not be approved and may result in engine damage.
The American Motorcyclist Association (American Motorcyclist Association > Home) has played a strong role in trying to prevent unintended consequences associated with E15. Here's more info on E15 from them - Search Results
I recommend all motorcyclists and motorsports enthusiasts support the AMA's anti-E15 efforts. End of rant.
Your poll selection has been added
I'm curious how many people run Ethanol fuel (E10 or E`) in their forced induction sling?
Have you noticed a difference in performance power, fuel economy etc?
I'm curious if anybody had done a dyno comparison between ethanol and non ethanol gasoline?
Just finished up installing the DDM supercharger today on my 16.5. I have about 100 miles on it so far. Quick question for you supercharger guys. Is it normal that the cockpit temps significantly increase after the install? Did the removal of the rear radiator shroud effect this? Also, I know the ECU is still learning but I am getting a sort of fluttering sound from the exhaust at idle. Just trying to figure out what is normal and what is not? New to the world of boost. Also like to thank @Casey_SS for all his help with the Install. @TravAZ and @Ghost had me covered with all the pre install questions. I sincerely appreciate it guys. Thank you.
@NJ SS determined his sling was asthmatic and needed breathing assistance
The picture below is prior to the surgical implantation of the Rotrex fire breathing apparatus.
Surgery was performed in @Casey_SS Operating Room!
I have put my install on hold until I can line up my installer which might be in October. Riding season will be hit and miss at this time of year so if I'm missing some parts or have problems with the install i'm not losing much riding time. I hope your turbo is working out for you. Did you get the Haltech?
No Haltech, Turbo is running fine I'm still at 2 power level, @SaltyClownNY has switched to 2x
I feel sorry that you are still not installed, nor do you really know if you have everything to complete the installation.
Question on my side of things...would this reduce the amount of fuel (or is it controlled by the ecu?)...essentially reducing fumes? One of the local guys here running a DDM supercharger is looking to go to smaller injectors because he thinks he is getting too much fuel.
I would not in any way use the smell of fumes as a guide to reducing your injectors to a smaller size!!!
YOU WILL BLOW YOUR MOTOR!!!
Rich is a bitch, lean is mean!
Rich hesitates, makes less power then optimal, flounders, stalls out, think of your lawn mower and you flood it by keeping the choke on too long, then you have to open the throttle wide open and crank out the extra fuel because it's flooded. Thats rich, thats a bitch
Lean is mean makes lots of power, but going too lean will burn your pistons, burn your valves etc and blow your engine.
In my opinion: The canned tune you receive and or load up is running slightly rich. Rich will not blow your motor(within reason), lean will. As @TravAZ states above. Slight changes to your setup can change how rich/lean your engine is running. As far as I know, there has not been any evidence that the ECU tune has blown anyone's motor, because it's tune slightly rich. By tuning that way, if you make a change it is less likely to blow your motor.
If you or "one of the local guys" want's to get an idea of what is going on, follow the advice from @rabtech and other, get a WBFS gauge and learn it. At which point you can make an educated guess with is driven by actual data and not your nose.
With that data, you can then decide if you want to have a custom tune done specific to your slingshot.
I hope this helps
If I've gone off topic I apologize, I just could not leave that comment out there without responding to use your nose to tune an engine, it will result in disaster.
thats interesting to know. I have never had mine on a track and I have never really tried to see how fast it could go, but I have hit 100 very easily on local roads and it always seems like it could easily go much faster when I let off
I have read that they have the top speed limited, but I do not know if that is true or just speculation
The 115 MPH was not the top speed of the N/A sling. I believe it was the top speed on that course before he ran out of straightaway and had to turn and let off.
His point, the charged sling accelerated faster in the same distance to get to the speeds you see in the video.
My rims are on the way!
What I'm attempting to do is understand the limits of my turbo and a stock engine. Hahn provided a tune file that seems solid with the Street Race Intake manifold. We can argue about injector sizes and such and which system is better and they are all valid points, but doesn't change the fact that I have one and not replacing it right now until I feel like I've exhausted all my options to get what I can out of it.
So that being said, the tune file for the FIC that was provided Bill had stated is getting about 250 HP at the wheel. So here are some facts I know of:
- lots go into a 1/4 mile time. Surface conditions, tires, experience, etc.
- My "experience" is novice, but I'm learning. Part of the reason for all this. Been messing with suspension and tires for a bit as well.
- I have the machine to tweak and mess with. The above is basically staying at more or less a constant. So finding the best setup that gives me the fastest times is what I'm shooting for and then what can I do to improve that. Experience will come.
So knowing the above...
- With others running 340 HP or higher (although with supper chargers), I believe the 250HP is low for the Hahn system and what it can handle (on the VERY safe side). One option is to increasing HP. A better tune file and or putting the sling in the 2x is an option, but I have a stock engine. 2x will give me up to about 10PSI I believe.
- I know the sling can be faster than 15.5 second quarter mile. So just trying to figure out what I can do with the setup I have. Examining boost pressure and HP is just one data point as Dave pointed out above, but finding the upper limit of what is "safe" seems to be what I'm attempting to do.
- So figuring out what is the top PSI for the turbo we have with a stock engine is what I'm trying to figure out. How do you know what is too much... BEFORE you blow the engine LOL.
I believe Bill stated the 250 HP was at 6# of boost, we should be I believe at the 2 level around 275 HP with 7.5# at least that is what I'm getting pressure wise.
2x will move the pressure up to 8.5ish I believe.
From what I've been lead to believe from my research it's not a 1/4 machine with 1 wheel in the back. @StickerDick I believe runs 1/2 mile drag strip. He's also running a 345 rear
@FunCycle, Dave gave a post some time ago where the vendors are comparing each others systems. I agree that it's hard to do and in some ways, the vendors are putting their own system in the best light and working to discredit the other brands out there, so can be a bit misleading. My take away from Dave's comments was that there is a standards for measuring the system on the dyne and that they both have to be using the same standards. I would think it would be close.
@Ghost LOL... Yes, there are a LOT of ways to do myself off. The key is that with my current setup, I'd like to get what I can out of it. The Hahn setup wasn't cheep all on it's own. If I'm at 250HP at the wheel now, is it possible to get to 275HP or even 300HP on the stock engine. I really have no desire to be at 1000HP, but I would like to get the most out of what I did purchase and at the moment, I don't feel as though that is the case. The system I know is capable of more, but when is it too much for the stock engine I don't know.
Maybe @Dave@DDMWorks has some insight as to approximately how many pounds of boost in a turbo equals appropriately how many HP?
I also believe that superchargers making their max boost at the top of the RPM range is also much easier on the engine then making that same pressure at a lower RPM like you can with a turbo. Lugging the engine and getting lots of boost pressure at lower RPM's; your just begging to blow your engine.
Care to comment @Dave@DDMWorks?
Just ask him or someone close to his camp where he purchases his injectors from. Shoot the supplier a call and check. Not all "flow matched" injectors come with data sheets. Often they just flow a bunch of them and package sets of 4 close together and call it a day. "Flow matched" is a very broad description. You really want to get the % of variation at idle, 50% throttle, and 100% throttle.
I doubt your injectors are that far off. It is pretty rare so see them much over a 5% difference at 50% and 100% throttle. You are probably just seeing odd air intake volumes with the portfueler intake manifold.
The real question is, why the F would he put 60lb injectors in for secondaries? That seems really over kill and not correct. Over 400 whp Slingshots don't get close to running out a fuel with running only 60lb injectors. You have a 40lb and 60lb running together it would appear. This would mean the 60lb pulse rates would be pretty low and lower pulse rates usually show more of difference from one to another.
Lots of odd stuff going on here...
Bill has no camp as far as I know, what staff he did have are gone. Nobody when he did have staff ever answered the phone. Well that's not entirely true. His wife answered the phone once. She gave me her cell so when something that needed prompt attention, I would call her. Instead of Bill, when he would not answer my calls.
If you guys didn't already realize from previous research/posts, Bill is an exceptional writer and maybe even a more impressive speaker. See an example below...
He is far from a dummy by anyone's standards. It is easy to understand why people would have been talked into something and regretted it later.
On a different note, make sure you really research and understand the Haltech system. A lot of people talk about it and make it sound like it is much better and more capable than the stock ECM, which really isn't the case. You lose a lot of features when you switch and you need to pay someone to tune it correctly. Unless you are built motor with a custom boosted setup / high boost, it probably makes very little sense to go that route.
Bill is an extremely intelligent person.
What is the part number of the injectors? Are they just stock Slingshot injectors? If so, there are a ton of people like myself that would probably would sell them for cheap.
Around $250 for 4 injectors is the price point for the bigger 60lb ones used in the boosted stock ECM tuned configuration.
Why don't you just do yourself a favor and rip out the portfueler stuff and run the stock intake, 60lb injectors, and a Bob tune. We all know that is what is going to happen at some point anyways.
I spoke to Bob and Dave at Maggie Valley and the thought was to use the Portfueler intake from Hahn and just swap the primary to secondary to cap off the injector holes and run the injectors supplied by Hahn in the stock position.
Bill tells me they are 60# flow match injectors he provided to me. I've questioned him numerous times and he keeps telling me they are flow matched.
Now maybe the you or the forum can educate me. Are all flow matched injectors sold with a data sheet showing their flow? If so I nor anybody I know got a data sheet from Hahn with that information.