Corona Virus

Quote from Edward Neal

yes - we have it - the Unions got it done, they also got minimum wages, overtime, working hour laws - - the unions have done many things, but now those things are all codified into law - the Unions job is done - - these days the unions are not really needed - these days they suck up money making their leaders rich and this pushes up costs and helps push manufacturing overseas where labor costs are lower - - so much lower that even with all of the shipping its still cheaper - - unions are helping to make U.S. labor un affordable

Just remember my last post, their time is not over but they have become part of the problem also.

Quote from Edward Neal

Was true a very long time ago, but most of the worker protections that the unions originally fought for are now incorporated into State and Federal worker protection laws - - these days when you have teacher union leaders making 350k to 500k when the teachers they represent are woefully underpaid I think unions have become more about enriching their leaders than actually doing much if anything for the employees

and the biggest joke of all are government employee unions - - why should government employees need protection from the people when it is the government that makes the very laws that already protect them?

Then there is the other side of the coin... I worked for a Phone Company my whole life after I got out of the Suck...and as they cut benefits and pay and vacation for the management employees, the contracts that were negotiated continued to keep benefits, vacation and "raises"... the raises weren't much but they were there. Also the company (which was not always a good thing) could not just come up to you and say, we no longer need your services as they could with management. So some of what you say is true, but they are still companies, and if they could get away with screwing employees, they will to enhance the bottom line and as enrich CEO's and of course stock holders.

I know in the education field you are talking about there are not stock holders, but in the rest of the world....

Quote from billythekidd

Then there is the other side of the coin... I worked for a Phone Company my whole life after I got out of the Suck...and as they cut benefits and pay and vacation for the management employees, the contracts that were negotiated continued to keep benefits, vacation and "raises"... the raises weren't much but they were there. Also the company (which was not always a good thing) could not just come up to you and say, we no longer need your services as they could with management. So some of what you say is true, but they are still companies, and if they could get away with screwing employees, they will to enhance the bottom line and as enrich CEO's and of course stock holders.

I know in the education field you are talking about there are not stock holders, but in the rest of the world....

but dont forget that in many cases the "stock holders" are the very employees who rely on investments in the stock market to provide the retirement benefits they will one day get

Quote from Edward Neal

its your demonizing of the "evil greedy corporations"

right out of a socialist play book - - you seem to either forget or you are ignorant that without these greedy evil businesses there would be no jobs at all

you also seem to be ignorant to the fact that their "greed" and desire to make money has never changed, their desire to maximize profits has never changed. - - - the only thing that has changed is the availability of shipping at a cost that has made using other labor sources affordable

literally every dime you have made and every employer provided benefit would have never existed if it were not for the greed of business owners / corporations and their desire to make a profit - - and the very unions that negotiated your higher wages and increased benefits is just as much to blame and perhaps even more to blame than the share holders for corporations moving production offshore

so yes you are a socialist if you want to blame corporate greed but dont want to put equal blame on the unrealistic demands and greed of the unions

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corporate greed shipped our good paying jobs to other countries to take advantage of their lower wages...people that work Like slaves for a few cents a day....it created higher American unemployment. It lowered our wages and our benefits.....companies used that ad a ploy to force workers to take concessions....if you don’t we’ll ship your job to China.... that’s corporate greed....Taking advantage of slave labor To enrich your bottom line is despicable...nobody should be happy owning stock in companies that promote slave wages.....
Unions would not be needed if employers were fair with their workers.... blame Andrew Carnegie for unions....he wanted his workers to be equal to Paid slaves....So the workers went on strike to form the steelworkers union.....GREEDY owner.....

what about all the greedy companies that went bankrupt to screw their employees out of their pensions? That wasn’t greed?....that was theIr big Evil scheme...Look how much money we can put Back into the company....

That why the government started the pension guarantee program to guarantee employees would get half of their pension if their company went bankrupt....

Our union got the company to Guarantee to fund our Pension program....they would have never done it on their own.....

Quote from Edward Neal

but dont forget that in many cases the "stock holders" are the very employees who rely on investments in the stock market to provide the retirement benefits they will one day get

that plan suckered the employees into rooting for corporate greed....if you own stock or have a 401k you’re Part of the problem....

Apparently it’s time to rename this thread...

Quote from Tripod

Apparently it’s time to rename this thread...

this just proves how tangled together all of these topics are. There is too much politics in politics. There is too much politics involved in this virus.

Quote from Bigdog

this just proves how tangled together all of these topics are. There is too much politics in politics. There is too much politics involved in this virus.

sounds like a conspiracy to me

Quote from Bigdog

that plan suckered the employees into rooting for corporate greed....if you own stock or have a 401k you’re Part of the problem....

Wrong , that is called planning ahead instead of waiting for some sort of hand out from the government.

Quote from Neosolidus

So you own nothing made in china?

The computer/cell phone where you typed that was made in china.... Are you going to continue using it.

Stop spewing bs, anyone bitching china this and china that while using a smartphone is a GD hypocrite, talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

I think the key phrase should be "make an effort". Be willing to pay a few more bucks to buy American. Your not going to be able to purge EVERYTHING that is Chinese made, but you can start.

Like fitness. Your not going to start out on a 5 mile run, but you can work your way up to it.

Quote from echoraven

I think the key phrase should be "make an effort". Be willing to pay a few more bucks to buy American. Your not going to be able to purge EVERYTHING that is Chinese made, but you can start.

Like fitness. Your not going to start out on a 5 mile run, but you can work your way up to it.

I do make an effort and support local economy when possible BUT I am not going to be a hypocrite and come here preaching that china is bad and all the non sense that someone who has never had to wager the well being of 10000s of employees, shareholders and your own is saying.

Again you can be an idealist as much as you want but reality is that we NEED china to be prosperous and anyone who says otherwise is very uneducated as far as how an economy runs and needs to get their head out of their ass.

Quote from Neosolidus

Wrong , that is called planning ahead instead of waiting for some sort of hand out from the government.

No, if you have a 401k based on the stock market and owning stock you are now part of the corporate greed cycle. They succeeded in trapping everyone into their scheme....you have to root for companies shipping manufacturing to other countries killing our jobs by using low paid Worker slaves to have a slightly bigger bottom line......are you going to protest the companies and tell them you want them to make less profit? So your stock goes down or it lowers your 401k value.......SUCKER....you’re in the corporate greed cycle....part of the american job killing business killing corporate greed.....screw The american worker in favor of higher profits...While having other American workers cheer for it because they own The stock. You can try to deny it but it won't work...If you own stock and that company fires workers and ships manufacturing off shore....you’re a corporate greed supporter.... Can’t have my stock lose money....sorry about losing your job ....but my stock went up...

the government is the one that started Pushing the 401k as a retirement/pension option. The biggest problem with that is.....first the “ government “ wanted you to do it.. telling you it will defer your taxes.......when have they ever wanted to help anyone? And they changed the rules in the very next year after it started, with many more years (changes) until you can even begin taking “Your” money....in my opinion the entire thing is a ponzi scheme promising everyone they will be millionaires in 40 years...does that sound “to good to be true“. Now ...Nancy pelosi is pushing the idea to add new taxes on the 401ks and all capital gains.....second, financial investors and planners go to 4 years of college to become financial planners and investors.....thats their full time job......how much financial investing and planning has the average American worker, working their real full time jobs, have with financial investing and planning......Little to none......third, this retirement planning has become a lot more critical and complicated Over the years requiring even more education.....So you are forced to pay out thousands of dollars to a fund manager and hope he’s not screwing you......forth, if the democrats didn’t raid the social security fund of trillions of dollars, of money we were forced to pay into......retirement Investing wouldn’t be As critical now. Because of that As far as I’m concerned the government Has a real obligation to make it up to All the working Americans that paid into it with a promise of future monthly payments...Fifth, social security money was supposed to be tax free.....they lied and ruined that promise......so if you believe your government advised And promised 401k Is going to be off limits from other changes/taxes, good luck. And I have a really nice slightly used bridge for sale....cheap.

I was Lucky because our union and company had us pay so much money into our pension fund for ever hour worked.....Instead of having more take home pay.....that still doesn’t mean the company isn’t trying to figure out a way to screw me out of that money...

Quote from Bigdog

No, if you have a 401k based on the stock market and owning stock you are now part of the corporate greed cycle. They succeeded in trapping everyone into their scheme....you have to root for companies shipping manufacturing to other countries killing our jobs by using low paid Worker slaves to have a slightly bigger bottom line......are you going to protest the companies and tell them you want them to make less profit? So your stock goes down or it lowers your 401k value.......SUCKER....you’re in the corporate greed cycle....part of the american job killing business killing corporate greed.....screw The american worker in favor of higher profits...While having other American workers cheer for it because they own The stock. You can try to deny it but it won't work...If you own stock and that company fires workers and ships manufacturing off shore....you’re a corporate greed supporter.... Can’t have my stock lose money....sorry about losing your job ....but my stock went up...

the government is the one that started Pushing the 401k as a retirement/pension option. The biggest problem with that is.....first the “ government “ wanted you to do it.. telling you it will defer your taxes.......when have they ever wanted to help anyone? And they changed the rules in the very next year after it started, with many more years (changes) until you can even begin taking “Your” money....in my opinion the entire thing is a ponzi scheme promising everyone they will be millionaires in 40 years...does that sound “to good to be true“. Now ...Nancy pelosi is pushing the idea to add new taxes on the 401ks and all capital gains.....second, financial investors and planners go to 4 years of college to become financial planners and investors.....thats their full time job......how much financial investing and planning has the average American worker, working their real full time jobs, have with financial investing and planning......Little to none......third, this retirement planning has become a lot more critical and complicated Over the years requiring even more education.....So you are forced to pay out thousands of dollars to a fund manager and hope he’s not screwing you......forth, if the democrats didn’t raid the social security fund of trillions of dollars, of money we were forced to pay into......retirement Investing wouldn’t be As critical now. Because of that As far as I’m concerned the government Has a real obligation to make it up to All the working Americans that paid into it with a promise of future monthly payments...Fifth, social security money was supposed to be tax free.....they lied and ruined that promise......so if you believe your government advised And promised 401k Is going to be off limits from other changes/taxes, good luck. And I have a really nice slightly used bridge for sale....cheap.

I was Lucky because our union and company had us pay so much money into our pension fund for ever hour worked.....Instead of having more take home pay.....that still doesn’t mean the company isn’t trying to figure out a way to screw me out of that money...

where do you think the union invests the money they hold in your pension fund?

seriously do think they keep it in a safe or "lock box" - - - - its in the stock market supporting the same corporate greed as all the 401(k) plans

Quote from Bigdog

No, if you have a 401k based on the stock market and owning stock you are now part of the corporate greed cycle. They succeeded in trapping everyone into their scheme....you have to root for companies shipping manufacturing to other countries killing our jobs by using low paid Worker slaves to have a slightly bigger bottom line......are you going to protest the companies and tell them you want them to make less profit? So your stock goes down or it lowers your 401k value.......SUCKER....you’re in the corporate greed cycle....part of the american job killing business killing corporate greed.....screw The american worker in favor of higher profits...While having other American workers cheer for it because they own The stock. You can try to deny it but it won't work...If you own stock and that company fires workers and ships manufacturing off shore....you’re a corporate greed supporter.... Can’t have my stock lose money....sorry about losing your job ....but my stock went up...

the government is the one that started Pushing the 401k as a retirement/pension option. The biggest problem with that is.....first the “ government “ wanted you to do it.. telling you it will defer your taxes.......when have they ever wanted to help anyone? And they changed the rules in the very next year after it started, with many more years (changes) until you can even begin taking “Your” money....in my opinion the entire thing is a ponzi scheme promising everyone they will be millionaires in 40 years...does that sound “to good to be true“. Now ...Nancy pelosi is pushing the idea to add new taxes on the 401ks and all capital gains.....second, financial investors and planners go to 4 years of college to become financial planners and investors.....thats their full time job......how much financial investing and planning has the average American worker, working their real full time jobs, have with financial investing and planning......Little to none......third, this retirement planning has become a lot more critical and complicated Over the years requiring even more education.....So you are forced to pay out thousands of dollars to a fund manager and hope he’s not screwing you......forth, if the democrats didn’t raid the social security fund of trillions of dollars, of money we were forced to pay into......retirement Investing wouldn’t be As critical now. Because of that As far as I’m concerned the government Has a real obligation to make it up to All the working Americans that paid into it with a promise of future monthly payments...Fifth, social security money was supposed to be tax free.....they lied and ruined that promise......so if you believe your government advised And promised 401k Is going to be off limits from other changes/taxes, good luck. And I have a really nice slightly used bridge for sale....cheap.

I was Lucky because our union and company had us pay so much money into our pension fund for ever hour worked.....Instead of having more take home pay.....that still doesn’t mean the company isn’t trying to figure out a way to screw me out of that money...

I am very happy and grateful to corporate greed, it allows me an extremely comfortable life as it does to many others here.

You are the sucker who didn't figure out how to make it work for you.

I am done arguing with you, this is pointless and not worth the wear my fingers receive by typing.

Quote from Edward Neal

where do you think the union invests the money they hold in your pension fund?

seriously do think they keep it in a safe or "lock box" - - - - its in the stock market supporting the same corporate greed as all the 401(k) plans

Luckily for me the pension fund was managed by the company.. the only thing the Union did was to negotiate that the company kept contributing to the pension fund.

Quote from billythekidd

Luckily for me the pension fund was managed by the company.. the only thing the Union did was to negotiate that the company kept contributing to the pension fund.

yep, but still invested in that stock market that Bigdog says is so evil