Let's throw them all in Gitmo and start over.
Nice thought but unfortunately there is no reset button in the election booth. 
Impeachment, let your Senator Know
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Here is an article in Quartz (paid member ship/subscription normally required with the first 2 articles free) about Alexander Hamiltion's essay about Impeachment published in the Federalist papers in 1788. The article offers background on why the Founding Fathers wrote about Impeachment in the vague terms used in the Constitution -
https://qz.com/1788093/alexand…eachment-defense-in-1788/
From the article -
"A president can be impeached for abuse of power in office, followed by a criminal prosecution or not. What offends the Constitution isn’t identical to a statutory crime. Hamilton noted of impeachment:
QuoteThe subjects of its jurisdiction are those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself.
The emphasis on “political” exists for a reason. Hamilton and his fellows had engaged in long and heated arguments about this particular prosecution process. Initial resistance to impeachment by some attendees—for fear it would be used to cow public officials—was eventually overcome when Constitutional Convention representatives explicitly agreed there had to be a distinct way to censure abuses of office and remove offending public servants, separate from criminal prosecutions and elections."
“Impeachment isn’t criminal law. It’s a political remedy.”
"The two processes also deliberately differ in form and function."
"Federalist No. 65 is explicit. The political prosecution process isn’t bound by the conventions of criminal cases. While presidents can be criminally prosecuted for offenses, that doesn’t limit impeachable offenses to crimes, nor does a Senate trial substitute for a criminal prosecution. Hamilton explains:
QuoteThe punishment which may be the consequence of conviction upon impeachment, is not to terminate the chastisement of the offender. After having been sentenced to a perpetual ostracism from the esteem and confidence, and honors and emoluments of his country, he will still be liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law."Display More
There have been complaints about the Impeachment process not being fair, but that is exactly what the Founding Fathers meant it to be, because it is not about criminal prosecution but is meant specifically to address acts that constitute abuse of power as described, above.
Clinton's Impeachment and trial reflect what will most likely happen with Trump. The party controlling the House of Representatives voted for the Impeachment Resolution and the opposing party in control of the Senate decided to not convict. In our system, the President is usually considered to be his Party's Chief and as such, if his party is in charge of the Senate, it will likely be less inclined to convict a President accused of impeachable offenses. Loyalty to party over loyalty to Country was the reason behind President George Washington's dislike for political parties.
Our system isn't perfect, but it's all we have.
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Somehow I didn't envision my retirement getting wrapped-up in politics all day. I'm not a politician but I believe politics are dirty and no one knows for sure how often and to what extent.
I don't think that's anything new. I can read all these articles and interpretations. I say to myself if I had some political power and I wanted, I could accuse anyone of knowingly and willingly committing a crime. Find out a persons typical travel routs post a police officer on the rout and catch the person speeding. Then ask the person if they have knowingly and willingly broke the law in the last few days. Catch the person responding no. If the person travels the same rout he should certainly know the posted speed? Assuming they were speeding (as most of us do to some extent). Then they knowingly broke the law and are lying in the process?
Yes, I know its not the same extent. I also absoulty agree that President Trump was out of bounds for what I'll call inquiring into a previous investigation which was strong armed into being called off (see below). I'll also add that I don't agree with constant investigations (two years Russian probe). Immediately followed into an impeachment is tearing the country apart.
Like I said I'm not looking to spend my retirement looking, digging, & analyzing politics. I am not a lawyer but it sure appears to me an impeachment inquire could begin for the same two instances below? Were heading down that road.
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just woke up and read the news - early this morning the rules the Republicans have been proposing were officially adopted - the rules largely mirror those from the Bill Clinton impeachment trial and will permit new witnesses and documents to be considered after opening arguments are made.
Sam - are you okay with following the same rules the Democrats wanted for Clinton?
Also it seems you do not fully understand the process - for all practical purposes the House was holding a trial - Trump has been been impeached - it will always be on his record that the House impeached Him - Now what the Senate is doing is less like a trial and more like sentencing - they dont get to decide if he is impeached or not - they can not undo what the House did - they only get to decide if it rises to the level of him being removed from office - - - just like Clinton even if the Senate decides it is not enough to sentence him to removal from office Trump will still have been impeached
as a side note do you know that of all of the presidents that have been impeached - none have ever been removed from office? - - - if President Trump were to be removed he would be the first in all of our history.
personally I think that would be a very profound step to take for what they are accusing Mr. Trump of doing - - do you think what Trump is accused of rises to the point of making him the first president in the history to ever be removed from office by the Senate??
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samowens44 I have two questions for you. After everything has been brought out do you think that all of the Biden's starting with Joe are guilty? Why would you think that they should not be investigated? Now remember where all of this got started.
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I always try my best to avoid entering political discussions as they:
1) contribute to our divisivness
2) change no ones minds
3) detracts from our "pursuit of happiness"
The simple answer to the witness question is that it adds credence to a very flawed political partisan process. Our political representatives do little enough as it is and seem to spend 99% of their time furthering their power base as oppossed to representing their constituents.
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I always try my best to avoid entering political discussions as they:
1) contribute to our divisivness
2) change no ones minds
3) detracts from our "pursuit of happiness"
The simple answer to the witness question is that it adds credence to a very flawed political partisan process. Our political representatives do little enough as it is and seem to spend 99% of their time furthering their power base as oppossed to representing their constituents.
Now that you mention it isn’t it funny our representatives are working 15 hours a day now that political power is at stake ?? POLITICS SUCK doesn’t it???
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I don’t think Trump is impeached until after it’s completed and he is found guilty. The House cannot impeach him but they do make a case and present their articles of impeachment. The Senate then decides if the articles are worthy of trial and can vote to dismiss first thing. The Democrats cried so much that they decided to go to step two and here the case from both sides and then if needed call witnesses and have a full trial.
It appears to me Sam that you want to not follow protocol and jump strait to witnesses.
If the Senate doesn’t find good cause during briefs then they can vote at that time since no witnesses are needed since there is no crime.
If they vote in Trumps favor finding no good cause then he is no longer impeached.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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The Biden clip is a doctored recording.
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I don’t think Trump is impeached until after it’s completed and he is found guilty. The House cannot impeach him but they do make a case and present their articles of impeachment. The Senate then decides if the articles are worthy of trial and can vote to dismiss first thing. The Democrats cried so much that they decided to go to step two and here the case from both sides and then if needed call witnesses and have a full trial.
It appears to me Sam that you want to not follow protocol and jump strait to witnesses.
If the Senate doesn’t find good cause during briefs then they can vote at that time since no witnesses are needed since there is no crime.
If they vote in Trumps favor finding no good cause then he is no longer impeached.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
If you were correct then no President has even been impeached - Like I said the Senate has never voted to remove an impeached president from office - - - Nixon probably would have been, but he resigned before the house impeached him so he was not even technically impeached
if you google "list impeached Presidents" you get Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump
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The Biden clip is a doctored recording.
Your kidding — right ???
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Your kidding — right ???
Where did you see that
The Biden clip is a doctored recording.
And just where did you see that?
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The Biden clip is a doctored recording.
Pretting good doctoring but if true thanks for the Info. Still wonder if the event happened?
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FunCycle that is a good question. My answer is that the President has all the legal avenues at his command to investigate wrong doing. He did not choose his legal resources, he elected to encourage a foreign Leader to do the investigation. This is unacceptable in our democracy to have a foreign nation to investigate a US Citizen. We never want this to happen as we should do our own legal investigation into wrong doing by our citizens. The only reason I can see that he would do this, is that he wanted the investigation only suggested by a forign nation as it would take the news leads and develop into a story that would put strains on a Political opponent of Trump. He could sit back and enjoy seeing thing go bad for a political rival and not need to do anything but reap the benefits of hampering Biden's bid for election. This is something that can not be tolerated. This is totally a abuse of power of the presidency of the USA.
Why did he not go to his legal councel and express his desire to have Biden's Son Investigated? This would have exposed his true nature of doing this behind the view of the public.
Remember, we only heard about all of this from a Whistle Blower. We forget, this would have gone un noticed if a good citizen had not had the courage to expose what he or she had learned. I praise that good american for standing up to what our democracy has presented. This is the example of what we should all be following. When wrong has been detected, let someone know and let the process prove it right or wrong. I think the Whistle Blower got it right.
So, that is my answer to your question. I stand by each word I post. I want the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. If I am wrong, I am glad I am for truth and not for just a man! I hope the nation will watch and make their minds up for what is right and what is wrong.
I think I have answered the question, rebuttals are welcome and state why you feel the way you do. I did.
I would agree with you except they were already doing an investigation on the Biden's that was shut down by Joe Biden!
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So according to that article I was wrong.
So the highest office in the country gets treated worse than an average citizen.
It’s like a guy gets charged for a crime and is found not guilty but he is considered charged for life.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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I would agree with you except they were already doing an investigation on the Biden's that was shut down by Joe Biden!
Also it was not just an investigation on the Biden's, it was an investigation in to a foreign owned company in a country where the U.S. had no jurisdiction to do an investigation
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I am a voter, I am judging by voter rule. I want the truth and I want it all. I don't care about politics, I think truth will give me what I need to know about making decisions that a voter needs. Let the lawyers present the case and debate the truth and let me make decisions based on what I get from that. That is all I care about. I don't care how other impeachments happened, I care about this one. This is a precipitating setting process that will let other presidents go in directions they want with no action to be taken against them if they do great wrong. It is the great wrong that I am concerned with. Having other countries to be do things for favors for the presidents is somethings I will not tolerate with out voicing my concern.
I stand alone in all this, but I feel that I am voicing my opinion about a direction that needs to be stopped for future presidents to take. I want it clear, there are checks and balances in our branches of government that are there to block a president from reaching goals of personal gain in any way. I do not want him to go on his own to wage assaults on nation without informing congress unless we are in immediate threat. Folks, we are in a place where small nations have nuclear weapons and War with this type engagement could be something that may not be stopped easily until all is gone. All it would take is a guy like trump with his way of not viewed as loosing or looking weak to get us into something like this. I have seen his threats to other nations. It sounds great to Trump Supporters. "Go get em Trump, we are behind you, anything you want or need let us know".
If not Trump, the future can produce someone that gets into office that may even be worse and has other big ideas. Without a Check and Balance power of our congress, may not be able to stop him once the foothold has been reached. I think this is the test we are under.
what information do you need? To make what decisions?
would you actually ever vote for Trump even if he were proven 100% innocent?
