~ {{ Pix & Video of 2020 Slingshot (2021?) Next Generation Slingshot.
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Display MoreThis is the classic argument posed by the anti-electric crowd. First off, as much as I like the fact that electric power CAN come from clean sources it isn't why I am a big proponent of it. I don't care if electricity comes from coal, petrol or natural gas.
The fact that it can, in the end, reduce pollution is a plus. And there are lot of studies that debunk this nonsense that electric cars pollute more through car fabrication and electric consumption. That's just BS from the oil propaganda arm.
In my state of Virginia already the power companies are advertising their pilot efforts in installing massive solar panel farms and are right now locally lobbying for wind farms off the shore. They also have consumer incentives in place
https://homeenergy.guide/affor…1gXAO1EAAYAiAAEgJIAvD_BwE
This from a state that is known for it's coal industry (alongside West VA), an industry that is dying despite what Trump says. Natural gas and renewables are rendering coal obsolete in this country. And no I am not a fan of natural gas because fracking is effing evil! There are a lot of documentaries on the topic and fracking was responsible for a very rare earthquake here in Virginia ten years ago. Pretty sure that was a wake-up call for the local politicians.
I am a fan of electric because it allows me to have my own fuel station in my garage which means I am not dependent on the greedy whims of the oil industry and their past behaviors of manipulating supply and demand to jack up prices and fleece consumers whenever they felt like it.
The power companies work under a different set of regulations and therefore can't manipulate their supply like oil has done. Furthermore if all of a sudden the electric power industry corrupted enough officials to start changing the regulation rules, capitalism comes to the rescue and you have solar panel companies offering home install packages (with enough battery capacity) that would allow me to MINIMIZE my dependence of the grid from the now greedy power companies. This was never an option for the oil consumer.
Power companies know that this threat exists this is why it will never be as bad as oil was. And yes you can obtain enough battery storage right now to minimize your dependence of the grid hence power companies are also jumping in on renewable sources to help keep grid prices low so consumers continue to support the grid infrastructure. Can solar power replace natural gas, hydro and petrol? Nope not with the current tech but it sure as hell can reduce the costs and one day the tech will be advanced enough to replace natural gas,nuclear and petrol in due time.
no need to call names - I am very far from being part of any anti electric crowd - I have 59, 265 watt panels on my roof. My system is rated at roughly 15.64 kw
my solar electric generation system on my house puts out over 5 thousand kWh extra power above what we use every year and that is clean electric for others like you to use
right now this moment this is my production - producing 8.3kW and of that 6.3 is going into the grid for others like you to use
yif I wanted an electric car I really would have my own charging station in my garage and not just an extension cord tied to coal generated power plant like you have
like I said - for me (not you) the tech isnt ready Saturday my wife and I had to run up into Los Angeles. it was just a quick up and back trip - no time to waste as we had things we needed to get back home for - it was bit over 110 miles each way and we drove straight up and turned around and drove straight back - except a 2 minute stop to grab a drink at a jack in the box we did it all on 3/4 of a tank and her tank only holds 9 gallons
so simple question - - could you do that in your nissan leaf - a bit over 220 miles non stop?
her car is good for about 340 miles on a tank without stopping - - is there an affordable EV that can do that?
my wife and I have 2 vehicles - my Slingshot and her 2013 Chevy Spark (not the EV) we have no desire to have more than 2 and at this point I dont see an EV that, for us, can meet the needs we have for our only car
Answer me this - is your EV your only car or do you still have a internal combustion powered car for when the EV wont do what you need?
I think an EV like the Leaf or a Spark EV would be a great around town car for local trips and such, but not as our only car,
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Display MoreHe will cringe when the next ice storm hits or major event that knocks out the power for a few days.
My sister has a Tesla and got stranded in Michigan 4 years ago in an ice storm that made her battery drain like my wallet after buying this Slingshot.
She was stuck in traffic on 75 using the heat when the car went into limp mode leaving her stranded and since there was no power in northern MI for days her car sat nicely on the side of the road as you can't get AAA to bring you some juice.
Now, I will admit in 20 years or so when battery technology matures and become easily removable allowing for instant charges I agree petrol engines will phase themselves out. Jay Leno said it best. When gasoline cars came out they were a fad and only a few people had them as they rode horses. With time and the progression of the modern engine they took over as a primary means of transportation, but people still rode horses for recreation. I believe that will eventually happen with gas cars, but we are a LONG way from that happening. The infrastructure is not setup for charging yet unless you live in a major city and your commute is short, remember running your AC or Heat in an electric car drastically reduces your mileage and who wants to sit for 45 minutes at a Tesla Supercharging station while your car charges (and that's the best option as most charging stations are well below 60KW).
I have driven plenty of Tesla's and I must admit the acceleration from a dead stop on a P100D is mind blowing, but would I own one for my daily commute? No way. Push comes to shove I can always siphon gas out of my neighbors car when they are sleeping
.Negative, I have been in ice cold weather (12F) in my 1st gen LEAF (78 mi max range) and didn't get stranded so no cringing from me because I plan ahead and know the limitations of my vehicle in any weather state. Only short-sighted and lazy individuals get stranded in electric vehicles in all kinds of weather. I say that as a general statement not specifically to your case.
Oh and long term power outage will only occur if my area gets hit with a hurricane. Guess where I will be, yup 100 miles away in Richmond parked at a hotel/motel charging overnight with a level 2 or level 1 charge or nearby a commercial fast charger ready to make the return trip when the all clear signal is given. And if god forbid no charging is available (highly unlikely), I will still have 110 mile range to get back home and there will be at least 5 fast chargers between me and my home so chances are I will get my car recharged. Meanwhile I will be passing by all kinds of gas lines at all the gas stations while the masses try to get fuel on the way back.
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no need to call names - I am very far from being part of any anti electric crowd - I have 59, 265 watt panels on my roof. My system is rated at roughly 15.64 kw
I am not calling names I am simply informing you of the standard anti-electric arguments that have been out there since 2012. Trust me I have heard them all, the worst are from the heavy diesel and gas users (massive truck and SUV owners). They always put out the worst un-informed arguments out there justifying their view that electric cars are a stupid idea. Well they use to until the buzz on high-performance electric cars starting ramping up these past two years.
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I am not calling names I am simply informing you of the standard anti-electric arguments that have been out there since 2012. Trust me I have heard them all, the worst are from the heavy diesel and gas users (massive truck and SUV owners). They always put out the worst un-informed arguments out there justifying their view that electric cars are a stupid idea. Well they use to until the buzz on high-performance electric cars starting ramping up these past two years.
But the argument is real - I am full blown solar on my home and it doesn't change the fact that it still isnt clean because it still relies on a grid that isnt clean - - and no matter how many solar farms they build or how wind farms they build it will sill not be clean until they find a real way to store the power these clean sources make - - when the wind stops and the sun goes down there currently is no financially workable way to store excess power - battery technology might be to where it can work for a car, but its not even close to being able to support a grid so that non clean sources are not needed
now back to my prior post - - you didnt answer my questions - - is there an affordable EV that can go 240 to 340 miles without having to stop and charge?
I have said that for me the tech isnt ready yet - and you keep trying to tell me that I am wrong and it is - - - can you seriously tell me that you would recommend an EV as a persons only car?
and is it your only car or do you have a fossil fuel powered vehicle that you still need?
oh yes - and please think about this. I live in the desert, it gets very hot here and heavy AC use is needed just to live here. SCE our utility uses a tiered billing system where the more you use the more they charge per kWh. Before my wife and I had the solar system installed our lowest monthly electric bill was usually around $360 - - and in the summer months of June - August our bills ranged from the $900's to over $1,200 - - - almost every month of the year and especially in the summer our rates were pushing well into the highest billing tier.... of 42 cents per kWh - at this price charging a Nissan Leaf Pluses 62 kWh battery would cost around $26 - which according to the EPA would get me 226 miles - - - on the other hand it cost around $30 to fill my wifes car with gas 9 gallons and that about 340 miles - - - - as you can see at our electric rates an EV might actually cost more than gas
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like I said - for me (not you) the tech isnt ready Saturday my wife and I had to run up into Los Angeles. it was just a quick up and back trip - no time to waste as we had things we needed to get back home for - it was bit over 110 miles each way and we drove straight up and turned around and drove straight back - except a 2 minute stop to grab a drink at a jack in the box we did it all on 3/4 of a tank and her tank only holds 9 gallons
so simple question - - could you do that in your nissan leaf - a bit over 220 miles non stop?
her car is good for about 340 miles on a tank without stopping - - is there an affordable EV that can do that?
my wife and I have 2 vehicles - my Slingshot and her 2013 Chevy Spark (not the EV) we have no desire to have more than 2 and at this point I dont see an EV that, for us, can meet the needs we have for our only car
Answer me this - is your EV your only car or do you still have a internal combustion powered car for when the EV wont do what you need?
I think an EV like the Leaf or a Spark EV would be a great around town car for local trips and such, but not as our only car,
Like I said to you earlier, your current setup will not work for an electric car. You need a 50kWh (minimum) battery station to capture and hold your daily solar power generation.
This would allow you to charge an electric car at level 2 rate and also power your house comfortably on a daily basis only tapping into the grid during long stretches of cloudy weather. In other words all it takes is a decent battery storage unit and you are basically grid-free (paying only attachment fees to the local grid).
Is it cheap to have 50kWh battery stack in your house, hell no. It will cost you around $15k but it's possible. Nissan and Tesla have been toying with the idea of putting their used car batteries on the market for just this purpose. Don't know where they are with that now.
So I agree with you that you are not ready for an electric car but keep your eyes peeled for a good price on home batteries because you are only a few years away.
About your 2nd point. Heh, sorry but a 220 mile round-trip is NOT a quick trip. I bought my 2nd gen. Leaf knowing I would never make such a quick trip to DC (210 mi range). But I have planned out (extensively) a 7-hour travel day trip to DC and back to Norfolk with just one recharge (30 minutes) each way at Richmond which would double as my restaurant/meal stop. Such a trip is convenient and comfortable in my 220 mi (HWY range) LEAF because as I said before I would be recharging at the 100 mile mark.
For 7 years I have only had an electric car (no gas car). The first 5 years was with my 1st gen LEAF (80 mi range) with a cross-town (@highway speeds) 40 mile work commute. I always had enough power left over when I got home to do errands (mall, grocery store, movies). Only needed to recharge overnight. I did this for 5 years and never once did I get stranded with my electric car due to any piss-poor planning. I always made sure I had enough battery charge to deal with any unexpected trips in town. I did this for 5 years in all weather climates to include 7F record lows one year.
Now with my 240 mile (city range) 2nd gen LEAF I no longer have to bother with worrying about charging because all I need to do is charge once a week overnight (to the tune of $6.60). This is more convenient then if I owned a 25mpg gas car going to the gas station.
To polaris's credit, the unique beauty and ride (not the performance) of the slingshot got me to buy a gas vehicle again. I swore to myself for years I mean for 7 friggin years, I would never ever own a gas vehicle again but Polaris pulled me back in. But now that I have finally got my slingshot fix to the tune of 7k miles in 3 months, I am so ready to put this last gas vehicle I will ever own behind me late next year.
This is why I visit the vanderhall website every few weeks hoping for more news on their electric model. I figure when I have the sling paid off next year, I will have put on 20k miles on her and gotten my money's worth and then it's all electric all the time baby!!!
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But the argument is real - I am full blown solar on my home and it doesn't change the fact that it still isnt clean because it still relies on a grid that isnt clean - - and no matter how many solar farms they build or how wind farms they build it will sill not be clean until they find a real way to store the power these clean sources make - - when the wind stops and the sun goes down there currently is no financially workable way to store excess power - battery technology might be to where it can work for a car, but its not even close to being able to support a grid so that non clean sources are not needed
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But the argument is real - I am full blown solar on my home and it doesn't change the fact that it still isnt clean because it still relies on a grid that isnt clean - - and no matter how many solar farms they build or how wind farms they build it will sill not be clean until they find a real way to store the power these clean sources make - - when the wind stops and the sun goes down there currently is no financially workable way to store excess power - battery technology might be to where it can work for a car, but its not even close to being able to support a grid so that non clean sources are not needed
Sorry but there are now several examples all over the world of power companies establishing battery farms to capture and store the excess energy of massive solar panel farms. It's happening right now. Once good example is what Tesla is doing right now in Nevada at their car plant and that's just one example.
But the problem with your viewpoint is your treating it in a binary fashion. You expect to go from unable to feasibly store the energy to power a small city at night to doing that no prob 100%. That's not going to happen any time soon.
It's a gradual process that will take decades but progress is happening year over year and slowly but surely this cause of pollution will be reduced. Lots of other pollution sources to worry about as well.
The irony of your specific house setup is that you could very well be feeding into battery storage that your power company might already have or will have. It's the same concept as cited below.
One interesting concept that has been floating around since 2012 is once electric cars have penetrated the majority of households in a regional area, is to setup programs where the power company could tap into the car batteries that are plugged in but are not being used (compensating the owner) during peak surge times in summer (middle of the work day etc). This would happen at work and at home. Unfortunately more electric cars need to be owned before that becomes a reality.
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Nice to see someone has done the research. The only downside with Tesla is their stuff is overpriced. I suspect competition will bring the price down in the coming years. Like I said I expect used car batteries to recycle into this market over the long term.
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oh yes - and please think about this. I live in the desert, it gets very hot here and heavy AC use is needed just to live here. SCE our utility uses a tiered billing system where the more you use the more they charge per kWh. Before my wife and I had the solar system installed our lowest monthly electric bill was usually around $360 - - and in the summer months of June - August our bills ranged from the $900's to over $1,200 - - - almost every month of the year and especially in the summer our rates were pushing well into the highest billing tier.... of 42 cents per kWh - at this price charging a Nissan Leaf Pluses 62 kWh battery would cost around $26 - which according to the EPA would get me 226 miles - - - on the other hand it cost around $30 to fill my wifes car with gas 9 gallons and that about 340 miles - - - - as you can see at our electric rates an EV might actually cost more than gas
To address this point specifically, desert environments can be the worst for electric cars that don't have active cooling and even with you are still looking at below average life spans for batteries.
Yet even with these drawbacks are there are still lots of testimonials from electric car owners that the desert can and will work with EVs and the costs are still lower than gas.
I grew up in Phoenix and I know for a fact that power companies have incentive programs to where if you use your utilities overnight you save. Since most normal electric car use only require overnight charging in the garage with a level 2 charger then it is economically feasible to own electric over gas.
The average residential electricity rate in Phoenix is 11.96¢/kWh. This average (residential) electricity rate in Phoenix is 5.93% greater than the Arizona average rate of 11.29¢/kWh. The average (residential) electricity rate in Phoenix is 0.67% greater than the national average rate of 11.88¢/kWh.
https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/arizona/phoenix/
And yes there are now electric cars with 240+ range like the Chevy Bolt and Hyundai Kona.
Here is a video blogger who owns a chevy bolt as his primary vehicle and routinely documents his long range driving from LA to Vegas.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJqgqWqKmdkIuBZa7JK5KSw
Here is his take on the brand new 2020 bolt with 259 mile range.
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if I wanted an electric car I really would have my own charging station in my garage and not just an extension cord tied to coal generated power plant like you have
Ok this statement of yours made me chuckle. First off here are the VA power source stats....
18 percent of Dominion's total electric production comes from coal, 22 percent comes from nuclear power, 32 percent comes from natural gas, 9 percent comes from oil, 12 percent comes from Hydro and other renewables, and 7 percent from other sources
Second, you make it sound like you are better off not getting an electric car because of being forced into using the evil dirty power of the common power grid. Are you serious?
You think owning a gas car that directly pollutes the air is better than an electric car that gets power that is comprised of 18% coal and 9% oil sources?
And spare me the "but making and disposing of car batteries is very polluting" malarkey that big oil has been pushing for years.
If I didn't know better I think you feel you are qualified to crap all over electric car tech because you happen to own solar panels.
Meanwhile I currently own both electric and gas vehicles and feel strongly that gas power is on it's way out and quickly at that because I have researched, own and operated both technologies extensively.
And you keep throwing this pollution thing at me as if it's the primary reason why anyone would buy an electric car when in fact it's only a positive side-effect.
The real reasons to own an electric car, are efficiency and simplicity in design, extremely low operating costs and fantastic performance.
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You know... I have read through this whole thing and I am still at the "Who gives a ....". If you want to drive electric drive electric and if you don't, then don't. I have a buddy that has a Prius and it is a mixture of both. I personally like that world but still never tell him what to drive.... I did give him some crap one day when we were "idling as it were" in his Prius.. by say... Hey you're wasting electricity....
Have a great gas, diesel, electric, hydro, day.
In my opinion the future is here... https://www.greencarreports.com/news/fuel-cell
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I have better things to do than drive electric. Beside it is not cheaper and does not save the enviroment.
Never say never. I might end up running around a golf course community in my cart someday. Or around Walmart in my Rascal!
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Never say never. I might end up running around a golf course community in my cart someday. Or around Walmart in my Rascal!
I retired from golf at about 19, I do not even see a cart in my future. Maybe if my legs don't work
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Never say never. I might end up running around a golf course community in my cart someday. Or around Walmart in my Rascal!
Check out this golf cart....hooo doggie betcha you are going to rule the golf course in that one.
or better yet this...
Just make sure you make a custom bumper sticker that says "but it's still a golf cart!" when you swallow your pride and own an electric vehicle in the future.
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I had a friend with a 15 acre horse ranch and when he was building a 120 ft by 250 ft barn/arena he asked me about what quad would be good for running around his arena and property. I told him I would think about a golf cart since it makes no noise and doesn't put out exhaust that will bother the horses inside the arena. For $8k he found a Bad Boy Buggy 4 wheel drive golf cart that flat out got with it and had aggressive tires. It was a perfect solution for his purpose.
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In my opinion the future is here... https://www.greencarreports.com/news/fuel-cell
Finally someone mentioned fuel cell....let me tell you about fuel cell.
First off, contrary to what fuel cell pushers want you to believe, hydrogen gas is not simple to make. Sure one way to make it is electrifying water and capturing the gas but what they won't tell you is how much electrical energy it takes to make said hydrogen gas. There's the rub.
Hydrogen gas takes more energy to make than petrol production or electrical generation via sources like coal,petrol or natural gas.
Here's the other kicker, by volume hydrogen gas doesn't come close to gasoline for available transferable energy for a propulsion system.
So not only does it take more energy to make hydro gas it doesn't return that much energy for actual propulsion via a battery system.
Because of this, the only cost effective way to make hydrogen gas is with guess what, yup good old gasoline/oil. So guess what group has been quietly funding Toyota and Honda these past 10 years in researching and producing fuel-cell cars, yup BIG OIL.
In fact if (won't happen) fuel-cells were to take off, than big oil would magically transform their massive gas station networks into a hydrogen gas hybrid stations virtually over night with their deep pockets of cash. Oh and the price shock of hydrogen gas on fuel-cell owners faces would be priceless because hydrogen gas would not be cheap at the pump. This is why Toyota and Honda were handing out 3-year coupon books (courtesy of big oil) for free hydrogen gas for their fuel cell cars.
Nissan wanted nothing to do with this hence why they never went down the fuel cell route.
Honda has finally seen the light and is slowly backing out of fuel-cell car efforts and investing heavily into electric cars. In fact their initial electric car offering has already sold out in Europe.
Only Toyota stubbornly holds on to fuel-cell car making but it's days are numbered. I guess Toyota won't admit that their prius hybrid glory days are finally over and are hoping to have a game changing unique offering like fuel-cell. Prob is fuel cars are extremely expensive (use of rare metals) and very complex (compared to just a battery car). No to mention a hell of a lot more dangerous. Who wants to drive around with a highly compressed tank of explosive hydrogen gas in the back of their fuel-cell car??
And no hybrids are not the same as a full electric car. Not only are you still dependent on gas and gas stations but the electric capability is a joke to the tune of 20 mile range or less so yeah hybrids are dying out fast. And no, when at a full stop, electric cars waste no energy unlike gas cars.
Oh and fuel cell owners have to deal with these random events as well....
Northern California fuel-cell drivers still left dry since June explosion
Since a June explosion at a Bay Area facility, hundreds of drivers of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles are have found their commutes and routines interrupted.
Eric C. Evarts September 5, 2019
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Getting back on topic, not sorry. Think Reeses.
I am all for alternative fuels or EV's or fuel cells, or magnetron or whatever. The more of them around will free up more diesel for me to pull trailers for long trips in a short amount of time.
By the way the pictures of the new slingshot look really good.
LC
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I heard the new Slingshot will be powered by one of these! Damn charging it, just get a couple cases of plutonium and you are good to go. I also heard they have a really really long range.
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Finally someone mentioned fuel cell....let me tell you about fuel cell.
First off, contrary to what fuel cell pushers want you to believe, hydrogen gas is not simple to make. Sure one way to make it is electrifying water and capturing the gas but what they won't tell you is how much electrical energy it takes to make said hydrogen gas. There's the rub.
Hydrogen gas takes more energy to make than petrol production or electrical generation via sources like coal,petrol or natural gas.
Here's the other kicker, by volume hydrogen gas doesn't come close to gasoline for available transferable energy for a propulsion system.
So not only does it take more energy to make hydro gas it doesn't return that much energy for actual propulsion via a battery system.
Because of this, the only cost effective way to make hydrogen gas is with guess what, yup good old gasoline/oil. So guess what group has been quietly funding Toyota and Honda these past 10 years in researching and producing fuel-cell cars, yup BIG OIL.
In fact if (won't happen) fuel-cells were to take off, than big oil would magically transform their massive gas station networks into a hydrogen gas hybrid stations virtually over night with their deep pockets of cash. Oh and the price shock of hydrogen gas on fuel-cell owners faces would be priceless because hydrogen gas would not be cheap at the pump. This is why Toyota and Honda were handing out 3-year coupon books (courtesy of big oil) for free hydrogen gas for their fuel cell cars.
Nissan wanted nothing to do with this hence why they never went down the fuel cell route.
Honda has finally seen the light and is slowly backing out of fuel-cell car efforts and investing heavily into electric cars. In fact their initial electric car offering has already sold out in Europe.
Only Toyota stubbornly holds on to fuel-cell car making but it's days are numbered. I guess Toyota won't admit that their prius hybrid glory days are finally over and are hoping to have a game changing unique offering like fuel-cell. Prob is fuel cars are extremely expensive (use of rare metals) and very complex (compared to just a battery car). No to mention a hell of a lot more dangerous. Who wants to drive around with a highly compressed tank of explosive hydrogen gas in the back of their fuel-cell car??
And no hybrids are not the same as a full electric car. Not only are you still dependent on gas and gas stations but the electric capability is a joke to the tune of 20 mile range or less so yeah hybrids are dying out fast. And no, when at a full stop, electric cars waste no energy unlike gas cars.
Oh and fuel cell owners have to deal with these random events as well....
Northern California fuel-cell drivers still left dry since June explosion
Since a June explosion at a Bay Area facility, hundreds of drivers of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles are have found their commutes and routines interrupted.
Eric C. Evarts September 5, 2019
You may want to look at some advancements in the Hydro world. Many of your arguments regarding Hydro sound very similar to the arguments against electric.... Just saying.... https://www.vox.com/energy-and…gy-economy-hytech-storage
