Need to start a new thread on this topic because it's important for all slingers

I swear I posted something like that about my experience in my crash . . . . .

** EDIT ** Found the post here. I agree that you should NOT wear a helmet without a HANS devices in any vehicle with seatbelts.

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So, I just went thru all 115+ posts regarding the helmets.

I speak from experience. I was in a major crash in my 1st SS. That's it to the left in my Avatar. Ford Mustang turned left directly in front of me and I t-boned him at 55+ MPH. I tried to turn hard left but all that did was turn the SS left slightly while still moving into a straight line. SS went into his passenger side front tire, UNDER the door, and PEELED the sheet metal from the side of the Mustang. SS spun around clockwise a few times and I came to rest 3 lanes away. Turns out (during the legal dispositions) that I was knocked unconscious for a few seconds - enough time for the other driver to get out of his car and come over towards me. You can read about it on TDS in the Batmobile is Totaled thread.

I was wearing the stock 3 point seat belt and no helmet. Yes, there was flying debris everywhere - windshield shattered and just added to the shrapnel. My eyeglasses were destroyed. 3 yrs later I still have to use a pillow to support my right shoulder while sleeping.

Point of all this: I am ABSOLUTELY convinced that NOT wearing a helmet in the SS SAVED MY LIFE. Remember about being unconscious - I'm sure that the extra weight of ANY helmet would have snapped my neck.

You see, motorcycle helmets are meant to protect your head when your body is flopping around after a motorcycle crash. Your body is not restrained by seat belts so the expectation is that you are separated from the MC and the helmet is there just to protect that fifth appendage from hitting hard things.

In any vehicle where your body is restrained by seat belts you're no longer going to be separated from the vehicle. Thus it's the vehicle itself that becomes the protection for your appendages. And those need to be secured from moving around. Adding extra weight just makes it harder for that vehicle to protect it's passenger. Would you strap extra weights to your arms and legs and think that would help in a crash?

So if you're wearing a helmet in a seated vehicle where you are secured, you need that helmet to be secured to that vehicle with any sort of HANS device. Ask Dale Earnhardt Sr. about his helmet in the car without wearing a HANS. An unsecured helmet in a secured vehicle is a dangerous combination.

That also being said, the 3 point seat belts did as much damage to my body as anything (okay, maybe not as much damage as the steering wheel, but you get my meaning). The 3 points in a vehicle without crumple zones and airbags is just the minimum LEGAL requirements. I have switched to 4 points in my SS (yes, I mounted them correctly), but am looking to even upgrade those to H-Harnesses. I thought I would check with other people in the Ozarks about their recommendations.

To add to my justifications, I've ridden motorcycles and dirt bikes for 30+ years and ALWAYS wore a helmet, even if I didn't wear other protective gear (jacket, boots, etc.). I agree with wearing helmets. I'm just saying that wearing a helmet INCORRECTLY is worse than not wearing one at all.

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Quote from neostar

"Actually, the American Academy of Neurosurgeons has already weighed in on this and they NEVER recommend the use of a helmet when NOT USING A HANS device, while restrained, as in "wearing a shoulder/lap belt". Forces on the neck are increased 40 fold in both frontal and rear impact crashes, nearly assuring death of the driver when the added weight of a helmet is added to the driver's head. Unfortunately, our legislatures are so short sighted, most have not addressed this issue, and won't until they are sued for INCREASING chance of injury/death by REQUIRING a helmet when driving a 3 wheeled vehicle equipped with seat/shoulder belts."

This is great info and I am working with my GA legislators to try and bring this up for a vote to amend the current law.

I have scoured everywhere looking for the source of the statement above. Do you happen to have the actual *linkable* source from the AAN?

Thanks!

I've used a HANS device, along with 5-point restraints... This is probably OK if you're on a racetrack -- where you're not going through intersections... A HANS device prevents you from swiveling your head to check cross-traffic. And you can forget about leaning out and taking a quick glance at what's behind you. I tried using a mirror strapped to the wrist of my left hand -- but it was simply too awkward.

The standard 3-point safety belt on a Slingshot does allow your upper torso to pivot inwards (towards the center console) on high-G deceleration. This will avert neck snaps as your head stays in-line with your upper torso. But it also allows your helmet to smash into the steering wheel. I figure, as long as it's my helmet and not my head it's something I can live with.

They made the same arguments when seat belts were required.....yes they save lives but you can still die wearing one.....depends on the severity of the crash...

A seat belt, helmet, Hans device, airbags and bubble wrap would not save you in this crash......sadly the guy died.

He hit a spot in the road that had a large amount of rain run off crossing the lanes. Speed and bald rear tires were the main cause....along with hydroplaning. We have all experienced hitting road water and having the steering wheel jerked around.

My girlfriend was in a very similar crash....she hit a pole just like this....because of rain and because of a recent paving project that left a 3-4” drop off across the road. She suffered a traumatic brain injury....was given last rites, was in a coma for 2 weeks and spent 2 years in a rehabilitation facility learning how to learn everything all over including how to swallow good. Part of her brain does not show up in an MRI. She has recovered about 95%. I consider her a walking miracle. If she was wearing a helmet. Things may have been very different.

I always wear a helmet. But because of previous neck injuries I choose to wear a full face lightweight bicycle helmet.....it’s not DOT approved.....it’s designed for guys that ride bicycles in the woods....cost $250...

This is my choice and any consequences will be my responsibility. I personally think if you don’t wear a helmet you already have brain damage...

There have been many local riders killed already this year...

How much safer is the slingshot with seat belts than a two wheeler? People have been killed in slingshots....

Every crash is different and has a different probability of survival. And an extreme amount of luck. I hope by wearing my helmet and seat belt I am increasing my survivability odds.

Just doing some quick research....I’m thinking about getting one of theses...

A helmet used in conjunction with a seat belt restraint is a recipe for injury.

There is a reason a HANS device was introduced in race cars.

there are risks associated with wearing a helmet with a seat belt, but there are also risks of being hit in the head by road debris without a helmet - heck as soon as one decides to ride a motorcycle or a slingshot we assume higher risk of injury than if we drove a normal car.

I have been hit in the helmet twice by rocks that were kicked up that could have really messed me up - I was very glad I had that helmet on. As to seat belt California exempts all motorcycles from the mandatory use of a seat belt, because of the high heat here in the desert I added a standard lap belt without the shoulder strap to my slingshot that I use around town - dont know if this is better with the helmet or not, but it sure is more comfortable

as a side note could it be that the helmet and face shield laws are there to protect others from being hit by you should you be incapacitated because of something hitting you in the face/head as much as they are in place to protect you?

There was just a thread on FB about a guy in the Denver area who hit a bunch of water and somehow flipped over the SS. He was sliding upside down for 3 or 4 seconds he said and the helmet saved his head from scraping on the ground. I believe it is a 50/50 in that it could help and it could hurt.

I have been riding since May, 1964 and I reckon I have been lucky. Never been hit by a rock, but I did get stung by a wasp once and hit by a big bug once. I could have raised my arm once also a caught a hawk. The only time that I wear a helmet is when it is raining. OH ! By the way that is 55 years! Never used no stinking ear plugs either and I can still hear at 73 years old. Ear plugs are for the SHOOTING RANGE

Quote from billythekidd

There was just a thread on FB about a guy in the Denver area who hit a bunch of water and somehow flipped over the SS. He was sliding upside down for 3 or 4 seconds he said and the helmet saved his head from scraping on the ground. I believe it is a 50/50 in that it could help and it could hurt.

I would imagine the very same can be said for every convertible manufactured.

A helmet and seat-belt while sliding down the road, wheels up in a Mazda Miata, would provide more protection.

A helmet and seat-belt, coupled with a front or side collision, greatly increases the probability for a neck / spinal injury.

It's too bad we cannot choose our accidents.

For now, I choose to avoid accidents whenever possible.

I can honestly say that on a motorcycle I wear a helmet all the time. In the slingshot I just wear a ball cap and my shoulder harness.

If I'm on the track doing any kind of serious racing I wear the best helmet I can fit on my head and now I wear a neck brace.

This subject is like asking what religion you are or what motor oil do you use. It can go south fast... No one has the best answer in all situations. Hopefully we will not need anything but you never know..

Quote from FunCycle

I have been riding since May, 1964 and I reckon I have been lucky. Never been hit by a rock, but I did get stung by a wasp once and hit by a big bug once. I could have raised my arm once also a caught a hawk. The only time that I wear a helmet is when it is raining. OH ! By the way that is 55 years! Never used no stinking ear plugs either and I can still hear at 73 years old. Ear plugs are for the SHOOTING RANGE

Haven't used your brakes either in at least that long!

I wrecked a motorcycle in 1980

Short story....too fast....gravel in the turn....tried to run it out without hitting the brakes...went into a cement culvert ...that launched me into the woods.

I let go of the handlebars and shielded my face and head. I was wearing a helmet. I ended up at the bottom of a tree about 60 feet off the road. I blacked out for a period of time. Woke up with a bloody nose and a strained or sprained shoulder. That took about a year and a half to be right again.

People in a nearby house knew I wrecked buy the sound it made. I didn’t hear it. A friend of mine drove me to the hospital. I went home later that night.

I’m certainly glad I had a helmet on. I really don’t know what my body went through during the “flight.” The bike was a good distance away from me....

I will agree that the helmet could cause us to suffer neck injuries.

Background: I’ve been a sports car buff since the early 60s. I cried when F1 went from 1.5l to 3.0l. I have owned two MG Midgets and driven/raced several English sports cars. Most were convertibles. Never had a roll bar. And managed to keep the greasy side down.

When riding a motorcycle (2 wheeled), I wore a helmet for years. With good reason, my head has the strength of a pumpkin and I learned early that crashing a bike is very painful.

Given the foregoing, I choose not to wear a brain bucket while piloting my Slingshot. My logic is that I have adequate rollover protection from Polaris, I have a good windshield and the TD Gull Wing roof provides additional protections. Add to that the seat belts and it just doesn’t make sense to wear a helmet.

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Our helmets have saved Justina twice from serious injury, me at least once, while riding the SlingShot on the highway, so, for us wearing a helmet just makes common sense. To take this a step further, many others have come on forums like this and shared similar experiences as Justina and me, but I do not recall of a single occasion where anybody has shared where their helmet has caused them injury while riding a SlingShot? Again, common sense...........................................

The same arguments about not wearing a helmet can also be applied to seat belts where yes, seat belts have been the cause of injury on occasion, but they have saved thousands upon thousands of folks from serious injury or death over all, so we choose to take the advice of the thousands that have been saved to the very relative few that have been injured, again, common sense?

Bill

Speaking of going south....

You choose the action, you choose the consequence.

1. Driving in an open motor vehicle of any sorts... Risk is elevated over driving a motor vehicle with a fully enclosed crash box.

2. If you choose to ride without a helmet on the road.. Risk is elevated and your driving should be more hypervigilant.

3. Risk Assessment:

If you ride close enough to catch road debris off the 18 wheeler or a monster sized truck in front of you -

If you drive high rate of speeds, with a lead foot-

If you drive aggressively like you own the road or your entitled to the road cause your on a motorcycle, or less safe of a vehicle -

If you continuously push above your driving abilities and cannot manage risk assessment- for congested traffic, the log truck 3 vehicles ahead, the guy weaving into and out of the emergency lane behind you... the lady with a phone glued to her ear that just blew past you...

Then you should wear a helmet... a hans... a seatbelt... and wrap yourself in bubble wrap... and wear non slip footies when crawling out of the bed in the morning.

Drive defensively, develop situational awareness, avoid hazards by looking for them, always spot your "out" - car in front slams breaks you have left yourself reaction time and already know your leaving the road to the right cause the left lane is blocked - see the bigger picture, and assess the risk to YOU and the LADY who is someone's mama, daughter, and wife... and the dipshit weaving driver who is somebody's son,father, and husband.... and drive accordingly.

and then we still aren't gauranteed to not have an accident... but if your a watchful, defensive driver your risk is significantly lowered.

Everyone likes to go fast, take curves, show out a bit... recognize there is a time and place for when you can - and when you shouldn't

Since Texas allows me to ride w/o a helmet, I normally don't. If I ever ride in a state that requires a helmet, I have a couple of half-helmets that also either have a small external shield or a drop-down shield. I like these for additional eye protection on those rare occasions I get caught in a rainstorm. I hope the lighter mass of the half-helmet will provide some hopefully adequate protection while minimizing whiplash compared to heavier, full or flip-up helmets.

If there is scientific evidence supporting not wearing a helmet when wearing a seat-belt, I favor changing motorcycle helmet laws to recognize current laws intended for safety may actually not promote safety in this situation.

There are safety equipment choices -- and then there are insurance choices... If anyone were to take a ride with me in my Slingshot, they'd probably be the most insured they've ever been... I've got a $4M policy. For good reason. Out here in Kalifornia, most of the Hospital ER's have been closed (guess why). An acquaintance of mine had a solo accident on a bicycle in Irvine/Costa Mesa and he had to get med-evac'd out in a damned helicopter. That short copter ride set him back $10K+ and that's before the doctors even got started... An accident at higher speeds in a Slingshot or car involving multiple people -- the costs can get staggering quickly. Not to mention that many cities like Huntington Beach charge a hefty fee for accidents in their city, to cover the costs of their first-responders.