Slingshot Owners Group (SOG)

    Hey all.


    So I went to the site to join, and I was looking around at the rules required of members. You know I respect all that you guys have done, but I cannot join anything that will kick you out if you say something bad about the club or the people in it. In the grand scheme of life, I haven't known you guys that long, but I have known you well enough (or at least a few of you) to know that sometimes you need to be called out. You need to be told that what you're saying isn't right. Sometimes you have to speak out against the crowd in order to make a difference. And I have ruffled enough feathers for you all to know that I will do it. I cannot guarantee that I will not "bring disharmony" to the world that you are creating. And for those reasons I cannot and will not join. I have stood up for some of you, and I have stood against some of you, and I have watched even more of you stand on the sidelines, which is fine. I'm just not one to keep my mouth shut when the boat needs rocking.


    I wish you the best, and hope that your endeavor is successful. Just please take care to steer away from the appearance of being a bourgeoisie original owners club who comes across as being better than other members.


    Good luck! :*  

    sideseatdriver and FunCycle , I can appreciate that perspective and we are always happy to take another look at things


    I beleive the language you are referring to is ... "The conduct of members that will not be tolerated and that may result in having your membership cancelled and expulsion from SOG include, but is not limited to:

    • Aggressive and abusive (both verbal and physical) behavior
    • Discrimination (sexual, racial, religious, physical), or bullying
    • Undermining SOG events or activities including disruptive or coercive behavior
    • Conduct that creates segregation or disharmony
    • Derogatory or defamatory comments towards SOG and its members"

    The intent was to protect the organization and other members from a legal perspective. More than happy to adjust it to be better and am open to suggestions for the BOD to consider. What would be a better way?

    Ross, I understand the meaning behind it, and I'm not recommending you change the language if it is what you need to cover your butt legally. Wherever you have humans intermingling, especially with the opportunity for anonymity (which is inherent on a web based platform), there is going to be disharmony. Who gets to make the decision with what crosses the line? I look back to some of the things that were said by people who have already joined SOG, and they are downright abusive towards other members. If you have someone like Bigdog (was that his name?) join, or even if you don't, but someone like him appears on this or another forum and your members abuse that person the way they did him, are they out of the club? Who monitors communications? Who decides what is offensive or bullying enough to be removed? Whose perception matters? If someone not in the club says something about a club member, and the response in defense of that member is abusive to the instigator, are they removed? There is way too much grey for me. There is way too much opportunity for hypocrisy and lack of transparency. (It kind of reminds me of church on a Sunday morning: you have the group of loyal followers who always try to do the right thing, you have the group of people who hope that this helps them to a better path, you have the people who just come to maintain appearances, and you have the group that come just so they can absolve themselves of their actions the rest of the week. And yes, that is a very broad brush, but it's the closest comparison I can come up with at the moment.)


    Your rules are YOUR RIGHT as a club. It's just something that I choose not to join (not that I'm an owner anyway!)


    Honestly, while I love what you are trying to do, I'm not sure I agree with the way you are going about it, so please do not change the wording of the rules on my account.

    Quote from KayTwo

    rabtech , wasn't trying to be hurtful. I don't personally have too many issues. And the issue pre-dates the transition to the new forum.... Whenever there is a push to get people to sign up for the map, there is always a handful of folks who say they can't use it or can't figure it out. Plus, you are always going to have a certain percentage of the constituency who just doesn't want to play. That's all I was saying. Make it mandatory.


    On a separate note... Where you taking all those kids? LOL

    Ok, so that reminds me of the most tasteless, creepy joke I know... and I'll tell it anyway.


    An old man and a young boy are walking through the woods. The young boy looks at the man and says "these woods sure are creepy and scary". The old pervert says "yeah, you should feel sorry for me, I have to walk out of here alone..."

    Alpha Supercharger is still spinning fine... it gets rode hard, every time.

    Quote from sideseatdriver

    Ross, I understand the meaning behind it, and I'm not recommending you change the language if it is what you need to cover your butt legally. Wherever you have humans intermingling, especially with the opportunity for anonymity (which is inherent on a web based platform), there is going to be disharmony. Who gets to make the decision with what crosses the line? I look back to some of the things that were said by people who have already joined SOG, and they are downright abusive towards other members. If you have someone like Bigdog (was that his name?) join, or even if you don't, but someone like him appears on this or another forum and your members abuse that person the way they did him, are they out of the club? Who monitors communications? Who decides what is offensive or bullying enough to be removed? Whose perception matters? If someone not in the club says something about a club member, and the response in defense of that member is abusive to the instigator, are they removed? There is way too much grey for me. There is way too much opportunity for hypocrisy and lack of transparency. (It kind of reminds me of church on a Sunday morning: you have the group of loyal followers who always try to do the right thing, you have the group of people who hope that this helps them to a better path, you have the people who just come to maintain appearances, and you have the group that come just so they can absolve themselves of their actions the rest of the week. And yes, that is a very broad brush, but it's the closest comparison I can come up with at the moment.)


    Your rules are YOUR RIGHT as a club. It's just something that I choose not to join (not that I'm an owner anyway!)


    Honestly, while I love what you are trying to do, I'm not sure I agree with the way you are going about it, so please do not change the wording of the rules on my account.


    By no means do we know it all - this will be a learning process of all of us - we truly appreciate any suggestions to improve and make the organization a better experience for all

    Quote from sideseatdriver

    Ross, I understand the meaning behind it, and I'm not recommending you change the language if it is what you need to cover your butt legally. Wherever you have humans intermingling, especially with the opportunity for anonymity (which is inherent on a web based platform), there is going to be disharmony. Who gets to make the decision with what crosses the line? I look back to some of the things that were said by people who have already joined SOG, and they are downright abusive towards other members. If you have someone like Bigdog (was that his name?) join, or even if you don't, but someone like him appears on this or another forum and your members abuse that person the way they did him, are they out of the club? Who monitors communications? Who decides what is offensive or bullying enough to be removed? Whose perception matters? If someone not in the club says something about a club member, and the response in defense of that member is abusive to the instigator, are they removed? There is way too much grey for me. There is way too much opportunity for hypocrisy and lack of transparency. (It kind of reminds me of church on a Sunday morning: you have the group of loyal followers who always try to do the right thing, you have the group of people who hope that this helps them to a better path, you have the people who just come to maintain appearances, and you have the group that come just so they can absolve themselves of their actions the rest of the week. And yes, that is a very broad brush, but it's the closest comparison I can come up with at the moment.)


    Your rules are YOUR RIGHT as a club. It's just something that I choose not to join (not that I'm an owner anyway!)


    Honestly, while I love what you are trying to do, I'm not sure I agree with the way you are going about it, so please do not change the wording of the rules on my account.

    sideseatdriver you left out the group in church that wants to run the church and DAMN everyone else.

    Quote from Ross

    sideseatdriver and FunCycle , I can appreciate that perspective and we are always happy to take another look at things


    I beleive the language you are referring to is ... "The conduct of members that will not be tolerated and that may result in having your membership cancelled and expulsion from SOG include, but is not limited to:

    • Aggressive and abusive (both verbal and physical) behavior
    • Discrimination (sexual, racial, religious, physical), or bullying
    • Undermining SOG events or activities including disruptive or coercive behavior
    • Conduct that creates segregation or disharmony
    • Derogatory or defamatory comments towards SOG and its members"

    The intent was to protect the organization and other members from a legal perspective. More than happy to adjust it to be better and am open to suggestions for the BOD to consider. What would be a better way?

    The operative word here is "may". If it said "shall" I would be to strict, it looks fine the way it is.

    I in no way interpret the language to say don't speak your mind, don't disagree with others, don't take a stand and defend it, don't be passionate about your beliefs, or even don't use raunchy language if it helps to make your point. To me it says stay respectful and don't make it personal against others while doing any of the above.


    We must understand that the right and responsibility to mediate, and therefore make sometimes difficult judgements and decisions lies with an individual or individuals and therefore all other persons may not agree with them. The English language is used to define the 'rules' and may not always completely and accurately express the intent. The willingness of the BOD to take input from the members (and potential members), and adjust the wording to accurately portray their intent to maintain civility among members tells me that their interest is not to control content but rather to maintain a space where people are comfortable expressing their opinion even if it isn't popular or mainstream.


    This should not be a major issue since SOG is not a forum based site but rather a funnel to other sources of information, knowledge and events for owners and enthusiasts.


    Just my nickel''s worth. Carry on.

    Remember folks - this isn't a rehearsal, this is The Show!8)

    Quote from sideseatdriver

    Ross, serious but random question. How are off-color (also known as discrimanatory) jokes going to be handled? If they are deemed offensive by one person? Is it going to take a group of complaints? Is the monitored behavior limited to the SOG site even though the participants will represent your club on the forums and in person too? What about pictures objectifying either of the sexes?

    Without a doubt this is where it can become extremely difficult


    Behavior is behavior and I expect that behavior inside and outside of SOG will be part of any complaints that SOG receives. SOG will handle any complaints with total sincerity and look at both sides of the issue so as to be as fair as possible.


    We can all think of examples where actions outside membership could impact the entire organization for the good or bad and I'm sure we can think of examples where actions outside of membership could have no impact.


    I think nudity is an excellent example. On a scale of 1 to 10 you'll find people all over the spectrum as what is offensive, what is art, what is appropriate, and what is inappropriate. If a member found a set of nudes or boudoir shots that I had done in the past and they found them offensive or objectifying I would expect that Board of Directors (BOD) would review the complaint and seek input from the person identified as the offender - in this example, that's me. I would have my chance to explain. At this point, the BOD would have to decided what next steps to take - but no matter what was determined an explanation would be due to the individual who filed the complaint. The BOD would have to understand that they are setting a precedence and they may need to seek legal council. In the end, the BOD is not in an easy position and definitely not one that I would expect they would take lightly.


    I hope that makes sense

    We have to remember that the SOG is not a forum, so there will not be the back and forth that goes on in this awesome place. If you think about the guidelines from the prospective of being at an an event that has been set up by the SOG.

    I hope we wouldn't willingly do the following.

    • Aggressive and abusive (both verbal and physical) behavior
    • Discrimination (sexual, racial, religious, physical), or bullying
    • Undermining SOG events or activities including disruptive or coercive behavior
    • Conduct that creates segregation or disharmony
    • Derogatory or defamatory comments towards SOG and its members"

    I would not want to be a part of something that would be happy with the above behavior, that is at an event set up for our community.


    If something happens, then we have guidelines to protect our community. I would not accept any of the above behavior if it was at my home, why should I accept it at anyone else's.


    We are very open to making this work for the community.

    Sounds like anytime you post you will have to include a disclaimer....”I am not posting as an official member of SOG. And in no way am I aiming my remarks towards the SOG group and or any individual members. These are only my opinions and nothing evil or derogatory is made or implied.”


    The legal fine print will be longer than any post.

    Quote from Bigdog

    Sounds like anytime you post you will have to include a disclaimer....”I am not posting as an official member of SOG. And in no way am I aiming my remarks towards the SOG group and or any individual members. These are only my opinions and nothing evil or derogatory is made or implied.”


    The legal fine print will be longer than any post.

    I'm not sure how you have arrived at this conclusion. Please help me understand your perspective so I can understand. With understanding we can then determine if there is something that should be changed to improve SOG member experiences .

    Dang, I'm such a follower, I signed up without reading any of the fine print. However, I read the list of the fine folks on the board of directors, and knew that they wouldn't intentionally try to screw me. … and I know where most of them live. There must be woods around their house too.

    Alpha Supercharger is still spinning fine... it gets rode hard, every time.