Interesting Harley article

If there weren't enough reasons to abandon this thread. Sorry I helped to derail this. Harley has done many things that have led to it's demise. The US automakers have also tried to make the best profit and in ways it has hurt them. Now, a jump to bicycles, and comparing it to who can buy a car from the original...… Well I'm out. Y'all have fun.

Back to the feeling that there's a troll under the bridge. Hope someone figures it out. Maybe somehow the moons will align. Until then, y'all have fun. I'm out.

Quote from Goats_Hogs

Many contributing factors on this. First off, most of the die hard fans of the HD's are getting older, to the point that they may not be riding as much or even have moved on to something else. Secondly, the younger generation in general isn't as interested in motorcycles, and the ones that are have varied interests in them. Many ride crotch rockets, and there's the adventure bikes and dual purpose, not to mention the small type bikes that are more in town commuters. There are also many of the younger generation that aren't even interested in buying a car, let alone a motorcycle. They seem content with living in their parent's basement and playing online games. Throw in some young couples that are struggling just to have a place to live and dependable vehicles to get to work.... that leave a large gap in the buyers market.

And lastly, I suggest this is the largest factor. Harley couldn't build them fast enough in the early to mid 90's. They upped production, built new plants, increased the bikes they could build. Many people jumped on to the wave, and sales went through the roof. The MoCo finally caught up by the early 2000's, where you could walk into a showroom and basically buy what you wanted, although you might not find the color you were looking for. By 2010, you could easily find the color too. Harley kept building them, like they would always have wanting customers. But in 2008, we hit a recession, and sales slumped. For expensive bikes, it really has never fully recovered. This last decade has left us with two factors that play heavily into this. First, Harley has backed off on building the bikes, but not enough to match sales. I was just at my local HD shop early this week. They still have "New" 2017's on the floor. Most of the bikes on the floor are 2018's, also new, never sold bikes. They have had 2019's in the back since late August. To say that sales have slumped is a vast understatement. And they never seem busy, at best there are a few bikes out front on a nice day. Also, with all the sales they had in the past couple decades, there are MANY bikes out there that haven't been used much, and are just sitting in the garage.

Now people are starting to try to move them, and it's a buyer's market. My wife's bike is a perfect example of why the new ones aren't selling. She has a 2005 Super Glide Custom, looks like it has 3000 miles on it and well kept. I've maintained it very well, it has new tires, a new clutch, new brakes, and the front forks were rebuilt last spring. Couple of years ago, I put in new cams and a tune. The bike looks nearly new, and rides even better than it looks. But it has 56,000 miles on it..... oh there's at least 100,000 left in it, but that doesn't matter. A new one similar to hers would cost $16,500, give or take. Her bike is worth about $3,500 on a good day. It's all about supply and demand. There are just too many bikes for sale used out there, some with very low miles and half or less what a new one would cost.

Kudos to anyone that read this whole post. I do believe Harley is in trouble, the only thing that has kept them alive is the bikes they have sold abroad.

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This is so true. You wouldn't believe how many used Harleys with low miles are for sale on Craigslist in my area. They could have their own category outside of motorcycles.

Quote from Bigdog

This might be the future of car manufactures...they are very close to pricing themselves out of business....

They are close to pricing themselves out of business. Truck prices are even worse. This hits close to home for me right now. Here are the numbers

A 2019 Ford F250xl is $38720

I bought a 2011 model exactly the same equipment all the way down to the color with 58,000 miles on it for $19,000 from a dealer. Truck looks like its never been sat in. Bed has never had anything in it.

Gently used for half the price of new. No way I would pay the difference just for it to be brand new.

Quote from Bigdog

Wow...I don’t even know what to think about this

GM Will Start Selling Folding, Electric Bikes in 2019

Is this to get all the customers they priced out of buying a new car?

GM had made an announcement that they were going into the electric market in a big way saying they expected to have 40 models of electrics in 5 years. They might be trying to be innovative to hold onto a high price market as car manufacturers abandon low price vehicles. It'll be interesting to see if they're talking real electrics or just low gain hybrids. The bicycle is probably an offshoot. Doubtful it'll be competitive with cheaper Chinese alternatives.
Back to Harley on this. Harley has also announced a full electric bike which will be interesting. One of their biggest failures has been in innovation simply tweaking the same models with new names year after year with bigger price tags.

Scott Wine CEO of Polaris Industries, had this to say about the bike industry Oct 22 in his third quarter report . (and it appears he agrees with everything your all saying above , the heavyweight market is in decline , however Indian is still turning a profit and gaining market share, due to the success of it's mid size Scouts and Bobbers)


"Indian was up low single digits with strength in Scout and Bobber offsetting industry weakness and declines in Indian heavyweight bikes. Even amid unprecedented promotions by a competitor, in September we surpassed 25% market share in midsized bikes for the first time in our history and look forward to building those riders into lifelong customers.
Slingshot retail was down again and while we are working hard to gain traction with our partnerships and grassroot marketing efforts, we do not expect to return to growth until mid-2019 for Slingshot.
Bennington posted strong third quarter retail and saw encouraging dealer demand for their new boats.
Authenticity is extremely important to brands these days, particularly with the younger demographic we are seeking to attract. Our Indian Motorcycle team and racers took this to heart as they launched the new FTR 1200 in the most authentic way possible. The flat track racer is our first standard bike and perfectly complements our fast-growing midsized segment. "

From their launch info;

What’s New: The FTR 1200 and FTR 1200 S are all-new for 2019. These are very significant motorcycles because they represent the first ones in Indian’s modern history that aren't cruisers. These could be considered standard bikes, naked bikes, or roadsters, offering up a neutral yet sporty riding position instead of the laid-back ergonomics found in the company's other offerings.These bikes have an all-new frame and engine unique to the FTR 1200 lineup. Indian is making it sound like this new modular platform and engine will be the basis of more new motorcycles in the future. Since pretty much every component of these bikes is brand new, there’s a lot to unpack here.
The engine is a liquid-cooled 1203cc V-twin that kicks out very respectable performance numbers of 120 horsepower and 85 pound-feet of torque. It’s linked to a six-speed manual transmission with a power-assisted slipper clutch. By comparison, the 1130cc V-twin that powers the Scout makes 100 hp and 72 lb-ft of twist. That means the FTR is positioned above the Scout line and below the bigger Chief in Indian’s lineup, and it's reflected in prices of $12,999 for the FTR 1200 and $14,999 for the FTR 1200 S.