So when the member turned down Vendor X, they informed the member that someone else would be making the same product, in other words, stealing the idea and mass-producing it?
Attention Vendors. Please email email@example.com any instruction manuals you may have for your products. They will be added to the FILEBASE tab for members to access.
Let me play devil's advocate for a second....
Business is a tough world. Don't make it right, but you don't become a $20M company without stepping on some bodies on the way.
That being said, if you alienate your base, how do you get to be, or stay, a $20M company? It's a fine line for sure.
I would also point out that if they are truly a $20M company, this forum is likely a tiny percentage of their business...how much influence do we have?
Not sure there's enough info here.
W/o patent protection, anybody can try to copy or improve on a product.
A straight-out copy is unethical, at best, illegal, if a patent is involved.
An "improved version" starts getting into sketchy territory.
IIRC, someone developed a fancier pliers a few years ago and "partnered" with a major tool seller to manufacture and sell it. As I understand the story, the so-called partner wanted to cheapen the product (either just make it cheaper to sell or literally make it a lesser quality product, can't remember), Eventually, the partner claimed to have an "improved" product and tried to cut-out the original developer. Unfortunately, I don't remember the outcome. Sometimes deeper pockets win, ethics be damned.
In the case above, I'm a little confused. Is the following correct? Forum member develops product. Contacts X to ?make?/sell product w/o response. Y then starts selling the member's tool (where's Tripod ) and X suddenly becomes interested and tries to start throwing its weight around. Does X want exclusive rights to sell the member's creation? Too late. If X is trying to take over and force the member to lose his idea to X, I would hope Y would step in to protect the member's and Y's business interests in the member's creation.
If I knew the X offering was a stolen idea, would I buy from X. Probably not, assuming I understand the story. Would I favor removal of X from the forum? Yes.
You are 100% correct from a business stand point. My question is one for our forum as a family. Are we ok with this happening? What happens when we allow the supermarket to run the mom and pops out of business. Creativity and ingenuity will be kept within a small circle and no longer produced. We have quite a few examples on this forum in the past where a member was producing a custom product that all proceeds went to charity. One of the venders decided to produce and sell the item for profit because it was popular. That was a great business decision but the member stopped making the product and the charity no longer received the donations. Our forum was created for the members, not the vendors. A vendor controlled forum is what we left to create this space.
To steal a word I despise from Jared... Welp... The forum is growing... The members are brilliant and getting great products off the ground...
And now the drama is starting...
I interpret "do nothing" to mean: leave it alone and let it be...
Now just state the names and we'll decide, along with Facebook if @ericastar76 and others do their "blitz" attack...
I know (based on stories and readings) of a vendor (accessories, not engine stuff ) that likes to copy stuff... Also claims to have tons of sales, but can't get shipments right or take care of customers too well after the fact...
But I'm poor and hardly buy things.... So... I'll leave y'all (the mod spenders) to have at it... I'll just read from a distance...
Maggie Valley is going to be fun this year!
If you ban the questionsble vendor... then what are you suggesting a boycottby forum members?
Second, anything you put up on the net without legal protections in place ... was just thrown up for grabs to the first person that gets the patent. That said, a 20 million dollar company has much deeper pockets than Joe blow ... good luck fighting them.
More and more slingshots are going to be sold in the coming years. Could be more forums piping up too.
The patent process can take years.
I want you to seriously consider what I’m about to say.
For the past 50-60 years U. S. Companies have been using China to make their products cheaper. But China has literally stolen every product and invention. EVERY product and invention they got paid to make. That means all the billions of research dollars and time involved to develope the product were wasted. the Chinese stole them for free and made huge profits. This was all due to American company’s practicing corporate greed. Forgetting about employees and only worrying about their bottom line.
Today the person that can make the product first and get it out there fastest has the biggest profit potential until the rest of the world catches up to them with their stolen copy of it.
It’s a cruel world.
I think I can guess who "X" is ..... and if I am correct they have a long history of the same well before getting involved with the Slingshot market and have a trail of ashes behind them so don't feel bad if you out them .....
Just my 2 cents is all the items that are being sold by forum vendors, I'd be surprised if more than 10% of them have a pattern for protection on their items. Unless they are knowledgeable in applying for a pattern (after fully researching that there are none already issued), it probably won't be issued. There are plenty of pattern attorneys out there and they're not cheap. To have one of them do the leg work and filings for each part would be a massive expense that not too many start-up companies could afford. That being said, to copy the product and design, while not being illegal, is not the way to establish a new business's reputation for fair dealings.
To not know all the details, it's hard casting a vote
Please don't read into who it might or might not be. I don't want negative attention directed in the wrong direction at this point. I am more interested in the forums beliefs.
If I understand everything .....
I don't give up on the golden rule. I know many in society have given up on it whether for sex, drugs, rock-n-roll, or money it doesn't matter to me. I won't give up on it. It really is a foundational piece to paying it forward - I don't care if you believe in God, buddha, or anything at all - what goes around comes around.
I have very few really good friends because I won't be fake just to be cool. If you don't believe in the golden rule and at least try to act like it every day we aren't going to be best friends - probably only acquaintances. I'm far from perfect but I try and I fail and I try again. I don't give up on me or those who strive to bring goodness to others.
I make posters for forum members as a way to pay it forward because others have treated me like they want to be treated. I don't do it for favors or discounts. I create the best calendar I can because it is my way to do on to others as I would have them do to me - no favors, no cliques, no discounts, none of that crap just good old fashioned how things should work.
I don't have money coming out of dark hairy places - I have to save for everything I do because I refuse to use credit so everything I purchase or where.my money goes has to be important to me.
The same goes for who I do business with - if you treat me right and treat others right .... well then I will treat you right by spending my hard earned dollars with you.
Far to long of a post but in the end if I won't stand for what I believe is right - big or small - what will I stand for? I'll boycott those businesses who decided the golden rule isn't for them and I'll spend my money and my freetime promoting those that believe and act like the golden rule.
Hate me or like me I'm a simple guy who wants to participate in making the world a better place
I don't like threads like this. It makes members pick sides, and I can see both sides. It's not right. Anyone can recreate a product, change it a little and call it their own. If not true, we would all have the same sling, turbo, car, truck, TV, pick your poison. This forum has recently taken a turn for the worst. Members bashing each other or vendors. Reminds me of the other place. It's all about money or mine is the baddest, or I can donate the most. Not fun any more. Maybe I'm reading too much into things. I'm out
It costs lots money for legal protections and time. A 20 million dollar company has a big legal team. You have one lawyer you can’t afford and no patent. Uphill battle at the very least. Unscrupulous.... yes ... fixable probably not.
Im going to answer this both as a vendor and as someone who has or had to develop product that were similar to others (even with patent in place) in another line of work. This is an unfortunate aspect of free enterprise (like it or not) from a strickly business standpoint. Without IP protection it's really up for grabs. I had worries early on regarding one of my ideas and went the rather expensive and time consuming process of applying for a patent. I'm still in pending status but have protection on my side. Utility patents are the ones to have but a design patent can be easier to obtain. If Vendor Y has all his or her documentation and dates on his design a provisional patent can be applied for and that gives them 12 months to get it finalized. This does nothing for the short time but if Vendor X proceeds to produce an exact copy they run the risk of being taken to court when and if the patent is finalized. Vendor Y would have legal rights to all sales (profit) that Vendor X received from selling the copy and also possible lost sales. That is about all you can really do. It's sad but that is business. I risk it with anything I make or design. Now here is what we as consumers can do. Be educated about what we are buying. Do the research and support those that inovate. I can tell you that the consumers are smart and will notice this over time. Now vendor X has the freedom to do this but at minimum should either improve or offer a better solution. This is how innovation works. Even working around patents is a normal business practice. Straight up knock offs only offer short term gains and in the end tarnish the image of the company. Back to Vendor Y..... Now is when you should be working on the next better thing.
ok.... I'll admit it...... I have no idea what's going on. I'm just trying to get the fenders out asap and im still trying to make them damn snake eye decals for mim? Plus the filkwr panels and we are still donating to st judes and dkf.... so it cannot be me..... right?
Im not picking sides here.... Simple giving perspective from both sides.
I agree with what RD said. I thought the same thing, but he says it much better than I would have.
Just call the men in little black helicopters and give them the kill order. Not enough info to do anything else.