Motorcycle classification weight

    Quote from Bigdog

    If you think about it logically Polaris is staying with the 791 kg ballpark and there has to be a pretty good reason. I would say that reason is they don’t want to be disqualified and re-evaluated by the regulatory agency that determines the specs for the motorcycle category.


    One more thing. They have to conform to 50 states regulations to fit into the motorcycle category. Pretty big task. Not counting all the different insurance companies regulations. And the national regulations.


    As far as insurance companies. Many won’t touch a SS. I had estimates from $1500 down to $525 if you pay for the entire year. Now that could have to do with some states calling it an auto cycle or the size of the motor. They tell you where it qualifies and what you’ll pay. You don’t tell them. Since the insurance industry varies from state to state and company to company you’re liable to find all kinds of quotes and qualifications and disqualifications.

    I must admit that I don't always agree with everything @Bigdog posts, but in this case, I actually agree with most of what he posted. My complaint is I just want to know the basis for Polaris' decisions. Presumably, Polaris knows of some regulation in some state or country where Polaris would like to sell the Slingshot, I just don't understand why using Google or other search engines I haven't been able to locate any such regulation. I've tried several variations on motorcycle weight limit w/o success.

    Edited once, last by BKL ().

    793kg equals 1748.2 pounds


    791kg equals 1743.8564938834


    Polaris is playing with less than 5 pounds leeway ...not too much margin for error.


    That’s pretty much why they can’t come out of the factory with a roof or any other mod that weighs more than 4. Something pounds.


    I would guess the SS has been certified by some agency that they comply with the weight qualification. Now maybe they have to be certified every time they introduce a new year model. So if they want to ship SS with more factory options they would have to make it lighter.


    I don’t see why it’s a big mystery or secret. I’m sure every motorcycle manufacturer has the same rules of compliance.


    And one more thing...that info I originally posted didn’t come from the Wikipedia article that the post directs you to. In fact I can’t even find the article I got it from. It’s just weird.

    A caveat to start with, I am not an automotive engineer and know very little about US manufacturing /transport codes. But if you read through the transportation codes specifically 49 CFR Ch. V. The Slingshots VIN code position 8 indicates it is a Class "A" vehicle limited to a maximum of Gross Weight Rating of 1360 kg for 4 wheels (Slingshot has 3 wheels and will possibly be limited to 1020 kg). Subtract from that 75 kg per person, 10 kg per person for cargo, and 50 kg (+/-) for fluids you will be limited to approximately 800 kg for the base weight of the Slingshot itself. These weights are either referenced in this code or the SAE codes. Except the fluids, I am just guessing on that part, fuel, antifreeze, oil, grease, etc.
    As I stated earlier, I may be totally wrong on this as I am basically just another idiot with a keyboard and an internet connection, but I would assume this would be Polaris's engineers starting place for design weight limits.
    Google search for 49 CFR VIN Position 8 will point you in this direction. Please note that there are lots of words and numbers in those codes and they get boring fast.


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    Quote from Kruzinstyl

    A caveat to start with, I am not an automotive engineer and know very little about US manufacturing /transport codes. But if you read through the transportation codes specifically 49 CFR Ch. V. The Slingshots VIN code position 8 indicates it is a Class "A" vehicle limited to a maximum of Gross Weight Rating of 1360 kg for 4 wheels (Slingshot has 3 wheels and will possibly be limited to 1020 kg). Subtract from that 75 kg per person, 10 kg per person for cargo, and 50 kg (+/-) for fluids you will be limited to approximately 800 kg for the base weight of the Slingshot itself. These weights are either referenced in this code or the SAE codes. Except the fluids, I am just guessing on that part, fuel, antifreeze, oil, grease, etc.
    As I stated earlier, I may be totally wrong on this as I am basically just another idiot with a keyboard and an internet connection, but I would assume this would be Polaris's engineers starting place for design weight limits.
    Google search for 49 CFR VIN Position 8 will point you in this direction. Please note that there are lots of words and numbers in those codes and they get boring fast.


    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Polaris Slingshot Forum mobile app

    An interesting comment. When I have searched previously, I was just using variations of maximum motorcycle weight limit, including US or Federal or EU, for example. It's my understanding that the Slingshot weighs around 1743 lbs and has a cargo limit of 450 lbs for occupants and baggage, which is around 997 kg and close to estimates the OP and @Kruzinstyl posted. Given the proclivity for a lot of governmental regulation to be as specific as possible, I'd still expect to find a simple "maximum permissible weight limit to be classified as a motorcycle" standard to be specified someplace. I had never looked at the weight situation in the detailed manner @Kruzinstyl used.

    Yes but obviously the SS doesn’t fall into that described regulation because it’s already over that 1300 pound weight. Legally. It’s interesting because it takes into account the “wet” weight and passenger/cargo loading to be under the legal motorcycle weight classification limit. Clearly the SS follows a different set of regulations.


    all vehicles have net weight and gross weight limitations... if you look at the majority of pickup trucks a half ton pickup can only legally carry way less than a half ton...you practically need a 3/4 ton truck to legally haul a half ton. This is because of the actual weight of the truck “empty”...add a half ton of passengers and cargo and it exceeds the gross weight limit.


    The salesman titled my half ton as a 3/4 to legally be able to carry a half ton.


    that said there is a small town a few miles from me that regularly pulls big rigs over for safety inspections before they enter town....and I’m sure they also check the paperwork to see if they are overloaded. I’ve never seen that done anywhere else on a local level. And I wonder about the legality of it unless they are being assisted by the state police which are in charge of the state required yearly safety inspections. This is being conducted right at the bottom of the turnpike on ramp. The truckers either have to get on the turnpike or stay on the main road and get inspected... they don’t have much of a choice.


    My point is you could always find a cop trying to make a point.

    Quote from Bigdog

    all vehicles have net weight and gross weight limitations... if you look at the majority of pickup trucks a half ton pickup can only legally carry way less than a half ton...you practically need a 3/4 ton truck to legally haul a half ton. This is because of the actual weight of the truck “empty”...add a half ton of passengers and cargo and it exceeds the gross weight limit.



    The salesman titled my half ton as a 3/4 to legally be able to carry a half ton.

    I just looked a a Chevy W/T (base truck or work truck, others have higher payloads) online, and the gross payload for it is 1806 pounds. That is above the vehicle's wet weight. If you have three 200 pound adults, you still have 1/2 ton of capacity for cargo. I didn't look at Ford or Dodge, but I'm willing to say they are comparable. If they weren't Chevy would have that in their advertisements, bragging about how they had more capacity.


    No salesman can title any vehicle as something it's not. The vehicle is titled by the VIN number, and if it's a half ton, that is exactly what it is and the VIN number will state this. When you take the title to the license branch to get plates, they know what it is by the VIN, has nothing to do with anything any salesman did.

    Quote from BKL

    I must admit that I don't always agree with everything @Bigdog posts, but in this case, I actually agree with most of what he posted. My complaint is I just want to know the basis for Polaris' decisions. Presumably, Polaris knows of some regulation in some state or country where Polaris would like to sell the Slingshot, I just don't understand why using Google or other search engines I haven't been able to locate any such regulation. I've tried several variations on motorcycle weight limit w/o success.

    weight may be more related to safety than any federal or state regulation. Meaning that Polaris may have placed this number on themselves based off roll over testing and crash concerns. If the protective cage has been designed within a safe operation weight they will stay under this number at all cost. Also additional items and where they are place will dramatically change the CG if any vehicle.


    This is my best guess and my 2cents... :|

    Proud supporter of S.O.G.

    (Slingshot Owners Group)

    :thumbsup:

    Owner/operator: MeanSling LLC :thumbsup:

    I clearly remember the salesman asking me how I wanted it titled..I pay $91 a year. A registered half ton is less than that....now maybe it was actually a heavy half and calling it a 3/4 ton for the title might have been ok....based on the gross vehicle weight. But I had a choice in how it was going to be titled...could have been borderline....he said to me making it a 3/4 would make it legal to haul a half ton...were talking on a 2011.


    Goats_Hogs, As far as the payload weights...you could be correct and they may have increased their capacities to be able to legally haul a half ton....which is what everyone assumes a half ton pickup should be able to carry....and all they need to do is add another leaf in the spring setup. Could be why all the newer trucks sit up higher..


    When the manufacturers were all weight conscious because of the gas mileage regulations leaving the extra leaf out meant a little higher mileage. They have made many engine and tranny improvements to offset the weight issue ...somewhat.


    And then again maybe there is a new regulation stating a half ton pick up should legally be able to haul a half ton. Which wasn’t the case for many years. I recall conversations about that issue 35 plus years ago.


    Club cabs and crew cabs and bed sizes changes everything too....gross weight wise

    If indeed yours is a heavy half, that would explain how it could carry more. On the older Chevys it only amounted to another 150 pounds I believe, and that was the type of spring they put on it. Also, at least in the 4x4 it went to the 3/4 axle, meaning heavier built and 8 legs per wheel instead of 6.

    Quote from Bigdog

    Motorcycle is classified as an on-road vehicle with a headlight, taillight and stoplight that has two or three wheels and a curb weight of 793 kg or less, but does not include a vehicle that has an engine displacement of less than 50 cc, or that, with an 80 kg (176 pound) driver:

    • Cannot start from a dead stop using only the engine
    • Cannot exceed a speed of 40 km/h on a level paved surface





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    So on a lighter note...Today I was out cruising along enjoying the scenery and just as I entered a steep curve, there he was...the granddaddy skunk of all skunks dead in the middle of the road! I had no where to go but to straddle the carcass and my butt cheeks clenched deep into my seat as I envisioned skunk juice squirting all over my Sling. Imagine my relief when I realized I was driving my car...whew!



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    Quote from Candyman

    So on a lighter note...Today I was out cruising along enjoying the scenery and just as I entered a steep curve, there he was...the granddaddy skunk of all skunks dead in the middle of the road! I had no where to go but to straddle the carcass and my butt cheeks clenched deep into my seat as I envisioned skunk juice squirting all over my Sling. Imagine my relief when I realized I was driving my car...whew!



    Sent from my iPad using Polaris Slingshot Info

    There ARE occasionally times when a cage is BETTER! <X

    Quote from Candyman

    So on a lighter note...Today I was out cruising along enjoying the scenery and just as I entered a steep curve, there he was...the granddaddy skunk of all skunks dead in the middle of the road! I had no where to go but to straddle the carcass and my butt cheeks clenched deep into my seat as I envisioned skunk juice squirting all over my Sling. Imagine my relief when I realized I was driving my car...whew!



    Sent from my iPad using Polaris Slingshot Info

    Surely I can get a witness here! I can't possibly be the only one that whatever I'm driving, I tend to adjust for whatever (skunk, pothole, road crude, tire gators, etc) like there is a middle wheel? Car, truck, Sling, I'm still allowing for that back tire usually....

    Quote from Goats_Hogs

    Surely I can get a witness here! I can't possibly be the only one that whatever I'm driving, I tend to adjust for whatever (skunk, pothole, road crude, tire gators, etc) like there is a middle wheel? Car, truck, Sling, I'm still allowing for that back tire usually....

    Since I ride almost exclusively at night, there are times when I come across something and, while I try to straddle anything on the road so it's under me or the passenger seat, that's not always possible. Fortunately, I've managed to avoid skunks so far, but have hit a few raccoons or armadillo, either with a tire or the lower front wing.

    Well you asked for it so here it is , make sure you study it all ! The empty weight of any motorcycle is not the limiting factor as far as regulations and certifications, its the GVWR . if you check your compliance label you will see Polaris has a published GVWR of 2199 lbs . This is because the maximum motorcycle gross weight for certifying they are in compliance with the F.M.V.S.S. (federal motor vehicle safety standards) and their appropriate motorcycle manufacturer sections is 2200 lbs or in Canada 1,000 kgs. and for the purpose of calculating GVWR manufacturers have to use a standardized person weight , this also includes aircraft manufacturers , and all manufacturers of anything under the Department Of Transportation. That magic standard number is 175 lbs per person (or seat) . they must also include an allowance for fuel and luggage.
    So when you work the equation backwards, Polaris,s certifies they don't exceed the 2200 lb maximum by carrying two passengers at the required standard of 175 = 350 lbs , 60 LBS for fuel and 40 lbs for luggage, (this can be actual luggage or options or extra belly fat exceeding 175 lbs) which leaves an empty weight (curb weight) of 1750 lbs. So there you have the reason Polaris will always be limited to 1750 lbs curb weight. For the purpose of certifying compliance they only have to use the curb weight of their standard models , and standard weight persons, and an allowance for luggage or overweight , options or persons. it would be impossible for any manufacturer to know how many options or bellyfat lbs an operator may operate at , so therefore they cover Thine ASS, with written disclaimers on all their accessories pages that it is the operators responsibility to operate in accordance with the GVWR


    Resources, this is where it gets mind boggling, keep in mind it is not just the FMVSS there are also any number of pieces of legislation or Acts as well as their appropriate, constantly evloving Regulations, I will link and list the most applicable here including f.M.V.S.S.But the definition of motorcycle in F.M.V.S.S.is currently evolving with applied for regs that aim to exclude three wheel vehicles like the Elio and others currently being imported form overseas because they have , doors, hinges, and operating side windows, and fully enclosed. meaning they claim those are too much a car to be considered an auto cycle. I will link that proposed Reg.
    I will aslso quote and link an agreement between Japen ,U.S.A. and CANADA AND OTHERS to all use the same standards as your F.M.V.S.S. I will link CANADAS AND YOU WILL SEE THEY ARE THE IDENTICAL STANDARDS. These countries all in agreement to manufacture within the same F.M.V.S.S. So are all honoured in each others countries. that's why Slingshots built in Alabama can be sold in Canada without question and Spyders BUILT IN Canada can be sold in U.S.A without question and a whole slew of Japaneese motorcycles .


    So since the U.S. currently changing definition of motorcycle and autocycle is still evolving I WILL LINK THE ALREADY spelled OUT AND LINKED, MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT, OF THE MUCH MORE ADVANCED COUNTRY KNOWN AS CANADA !! just joking ! RELAX ! It clearly defines already the motorcycle tricycle (spyders) and auto cycle , known to us as a three wheel motorcycle , as both having a clearly spelled out GVWR of 1000 kgs (2200 lbs) and keep in mind Since Canada is party to the F.M.V.S.S. agreement these GVWR limits are in accordance with the same F.M.V.S.S. the U.S. applies, Therefore all CANADIAN MANUFACTURERS AND POLARIS ARE ALREADY CERTIFYING AND MAUFACTURING TO THIS G.V.W.R. max of 2200 lbs as we already know how to read and properly publish them (just joking again but you get the point) .


    RESOURCES


    link to federal register to view any sections of F.M.V.S.S. (hard to navigate)
    Federal Register
    ::
    Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards; Motorcycle Brake Systems; Motorcycle Controls and Displays


    LINKto U.S. F.M.V.S.S.that pertain to motorcycle manufacturing
    mcpkg002.pdf


    site for regulation , applying to change U.S.MOTORCYLE DEF TO EXCLUDE ELIO TYP THREE WHEELERS
    View Rule



    Canadas, vehicle safety act defining motor tricycles, (spyders) AS HAVING 1000 KG GVWR
    Also defining our autocyles category, as three wheel vehicle,(SLINGSHOTS) AS HAVING 1000 KG GVWR


    Canadas C.M.V.S.S. this Canadian chart shows all the motorcycle standards from motorcycle manufacturing .F.M.V.S.S.. are identical to the CANADIAN MOTORCYCLE ONES and if you study the Canadian chart you will see which ones apply to motortricycles (spyders) and which ones apply to three wheel vehicles (slingshots) your autocycles.
    Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations





    Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations
    C.R.C., c. 1038
    MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT
    Regulations Respecting Safety for Motor Vehicles and Motor Vehicle Components
    Short Title
    1 These Regulations may be cited as the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations.
    [*]three-wheeled vehicle means a vehicle, other than a competition vehicle, an antique reproduction vehicle, a motorcycle, a restricted-use motorcycle, a trailer or a vehicle imported temporarily for special purposes, that

    • (a) is designed to travel on three wheels in contact with the ground,
    • (b) has no more than four designated seating positions, and
    • (c) has a GVWR of 1 000 kg or less; (véhicule à trois roues)

    [/list] [*]motor tricycle means a motorcycle, other than an antique reproduction vehicle, that

    • (a) is designed to travel on three wheels in contact with the ground,
    • (b) has seating on which all occupants must sit astride,
    • (c) has no more than four designated seating positions,
    • (d) has a GVWR of 1 000 kg or less; and
    • (e) does not have a structure partially or fully enclosing the driver and passenger, other than that part of the vehicle forward of the driver’s torso and the seat backrest; (tricycle à moteur)

    [/list]