Electrical question - rotary switch for headlights?

Quote from KayTwo

Well, in all seriousness, if I go with 6 switches, one for each circuit, and I'm not clicking through them on a rotary switch, I'm thinking I should be able to avoid the relays, yes?

I like that lower location for the small switches. After I get a few pieces from @Roy658, I'll see what else I want/need, and then after I get that, then I'll lay it all out and take a few pictures and see what you guys think I'm missing.

Thanks a bunch for all the ideas and advice!

That is the flipping a coin scenario which i spoke off, you are likely 90% ok to do with just low power LEDs, def not with HIDs or Halogens.

In simple terms is like carrying a loaded weapon aimed at your crotch that has a twitchy firing pin........ I won't do it nor do i recommend anyone to do it but i am sure there will be someone to do it and get away with it.

Quote from KayTwo

Well, in all seriousness, if I go with 6 switches, one for each circuit, and I'm not clicking through them on a rotary switch, I'm thinking I should be able to avoid the relays, yes?

I like that lower location for the small switches. After I get a few pieces from @Roy658, I'll see what else I want/need, and then after I get that, then I'll lay it all out and take a few pictures and see what you guys think I'm missing.

Thanks a bunch for all the ideas and advice!

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No, you don't want to skip the relays. As noted before, a switch cannot handle the high current being drawn by headlights and will burn up. If your lucky, just the switch will get very hot, smell like burnt plastic, and stop working. If you're unlucky, your entire SS will get very hot, smell like burnt plastic, and stop working. Be sure to have marshmallows on-hand for the fire department when they arrive on the scene.

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@KayTwo, switches are rated for load and cycles, meaning as long as you stay within the load rating the switch will last for the rated number of cycles. Think home. You have at least one switch in every room that last for decades. Been in my home for over 20 years and haven"t replaced a switch. The switches I"m sending to you are rated at 3 amps load for 100,000 cycles. As long as the load connected to the switch doesn"t exceed 3 amps, you will not need a relay. For loads greater than 3 amps you will. I have relays rated at 30 amps with an integral fuse contained in the relay case. The switch only has to provide a few hundred milliamps to activate the relay and less to hold. 80mm Angel eye led"s are rated at about 270ma or about 1.6 amps for 6, and would not require a relay. I"ve had my 6 on a switch like I'm sending for almost 2 years with no problem. We will have to evaluate each load to determine if a relay is required. Remember a relay is only a magnetically controlled switch with its own amp and cycle rating. Polaris already has relay circuits for headlights. I just put a switch into the circuit to control heads through the oem fuse and relays.

Quote from Roy658

@KayTwo, switches are rated for load and cycles, meaning as long as you stay within the load rating the switch will last for the rated number of cycles. Think home. You have at least one switch in every room that last for decades. Been in my home for over 20 years and haven"t replaced a switch. The switches I"m sending to you are rated at 3 amps load for 100,000 cycles. As long as the load connected to the switch doesn"t exceed 3 amps, you will not need a relay. For loads greater than 3 amps you will. I have relays rated at 30 amps with an integral fuse contained in the relay case. The switch only has to provide a few hundred milliamps to activate the relay and less to hold. 80mm Angel eye led"s are rated at about 270ma or about 1.6 amps and would not require a relay. I"ve had my 6 on a switch like I'm sending for almost 2 years with no problem. We will have to evaluate each load to determine if a relay is required. Remember a relay is only a magnetically controlled switch with its own amp and cycle rating. Polaris already has relay circuits for headlights. I just put a switch into the circuit to control heads through the oem fuse and relays.

What @KayTwo got from that was: "switches are wah wah wuh-wah wah, wuh wah wah..."

Considering his limited experience and knowledge with this stuff, it's probably better to include the relays to prevent any mishaps down the road. Yes, the switch can probably handle the LED load, for now, but controlling a 20-30A circuit with a 3A switch is just asking for trouble, later. At $5 each, its not going to be breaking the bank.

Personally, I think transistors would be even better because finding someplace to mount a bunch of relays will be a challenge and looks like crap. I'm using 3 relays and they're an eye sore. I have the materials to convert to transistors, I just haven't taken the time to make the change.

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You're probably going to need Mosfet's with low milli ohm on-resistance. If you get low on-resistance say 10 milli ohm, you will still have to dissapate 9 watts at a full load of 30 amps. Not sure that the heatsinks won't be less esthetic than the relays.

Quote from Roy658

@KayTwo, switches are rated for load and cycles, meaning as long as you stay within the load rating the switch will last for the rated number of cycles. Think home. You have at least one switch in every room that last for decades. Been in my home for over 20 years and haven"t replaced a switch. The switches I"m sending to you are rated at 3 amps load for 100,000 cycles. As long as the load connected to the switch doesn"t exceed 3 amps, you will not need a relay. For loads greater than 3 amps you will. I have relays rated at 30 amps with an integral fuse contained in the relay case. The switch only has to provide a few hundred milliamps to activate the relay and less to hold. 80mm Angel eye led"s are rated at about 270ma or about 1.6 amps for 6, and would not require a relay. I"ve had my 6 on a switch like I'm sending for almost 2 years with no problem. We will have to evaluate each load to determine if a relay is required. Remember a relay is only a magnetically controlled switch with its own amp and cycle rating. Polaris already has relay circuits for headlights. I just put a switch into the circuit to control heads through the oem fuse and relays.

You are correct to a certain extend but remember you are comparing apples and oranges when comparing the life of an AC switch to a DC switch.

Quote from Roy658

Polaris already has relay circuits for headlights. I just put a switch into the circuit to control heads through the oem fuse and relays.

Good point! Using the OEM relay works great but only if you're switching everything on the circuit. In this case, he's switching each pair so using the OEM relay is out but the combined load is only two headlights or two halos per switch. My LED aux. headlights (900 lumens, no heatsinks or fans) are only pulling about 165mA/each. The high power LED bulbs with the fans probably pull closer to an amp (just guessing - don't hold me to that), but that would still be fine for two bulbs on 3A switch without a relay.

I would still err on the side of caution and recommend a relay of some sort but direct switching should work as long as the load never exceeds 1.5A per bulb (3A total). If it does exceed 3A, the switch will fry very quickly. The danger is that if it does fry, it will not necessarily blow the fuse. It might, but not before the switch gets hot enough to melt the metal contacts. It might happen very fast (pop!) or slow (red-hot metal waiting to start a fire).

If you really want to skip the relays then at least put an in-line fuse holder on each switch with a 3A fuse. Just like wearing a helmet or a condom, if you're going to take the risk, some protection is better than none.

@Gadgeteer They changed that to individual relays with the recall. Circuit was overheating with everything on one. Still has the same control i
line but it easy to break into the second relay.

Quote from Neosolidus

You are correct to a certain extend but remember you are comparing apples and oranges when comparing the life of an AC switch to a DC switch.

Just an example, @KayTwo has limited electrical experience. DC switches are rated per same criteria but in terms of dc volts, current and cycles.

Quote from Roy658

@Gadgeteer They changed that to individual relays with the recall. Circuit was overheating with everything on one. Still has the same control i
line but it easy to break into the second relay.

I get what you're saying, my 2016.5 LE had the separate relays installed on the assembly line. You could tap the aux. lights relay, but the main lights (US and Canadian) would have to be split after the relay. The only way you could manage this set up using all OEM relays would be to split the US and Canadians main headlights between the main and fog relays. At least I think that would work.

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Totally Off-Topic -

Quote from KayTwo

Guys, guys....guys! Give me a minute to go get an electrical nerd-to-English dictionary and take an Excedrin, will you?

(Seriously, though, I almost bombed out of Naval nuclear propulsion school because of the electrical course....I'm pretty electron-dumb.)

Back in the 1970s, the Navy offered a nuclear reactor operator enlistment, but when I asked about transferring from the Army, they told me they didn't want/take prior enlisted for that career field, plus since I was already trained as a linguist in the intelligence field, they would have wanted to keep me in the language field anyway. I always look back thinking had I gotten that training I could have caused a 3-Mile Island of my own or I could have been the role-model for Homer Simpson! IIRC, my Sister's first husband was the the person who told me about that specialty as he was a nuclear power plant Officer on an attack sub. I always liked some of the stories he had about Admiral Rickover and his "management" style, but I'm not so sure I would have enjoyed working for either of them (Adm Rickover or my former Brother-in-law)!

Once I got out of the Army and got rejected as a GS-3/4/5 Computer Operator trainee (they felt I was over-qualified), I was afraid I'd never get a job with the Federal government. A few months later, my Wife brought home a vacancy announcement looking for someone with intelligence experience on foreign military communications systems at Echelons Above Corps. When I went in for my interview, it seemed I was the only person they found who knew anything about line-of-sight microwave radio-relay and tropospheric scatter radio systems and I ended up getting hired as a GS-11 instead of a GS-3.

It's funny how one thing can lead to another. I originally studied Engineering in college so I wouldn't have to worry about a foreign language requirement. I then got tired of going to school and joined the Army, only to be sent to language school which, in turn, led to jobs that allowed me to start at a much higher pay grade later with the Federal government.

My Wife's Mom wanted her to become a clerk-typist when she joined the Air Force (a skill her Mom felt would be useful to her after her enlistment), but she ended up going to Language school for Russian. After she got out, she worked for the government in low-level positions in printing and personnel, but she was eventually able to use her military experience to get a job fielding and providing training for new intelligence collection and processing systems and eventually made it all the way to GS-15 w/o ever completing college.

Quote from Gadgeteer

I get what you're saying, my 2016.5 LE had the separate relays installed on the assembly line. You could tap the aux. lights relay, but the main lights (US and Canadian) would have to be split after the relay. The only way you could manage this set up using all OEM relays would be to split the US and Canadians main headlights between the main and fog relays. At least I think that would work.

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It does work. After my 2015 model year headlights went out during a night ride, and while Polaris was still maintaining there wasn't any problem with the headlights, I changed the fog light circuit connectors to fit the outer headlights and split the headlights between the main and fog light circuits and added a switch to the fog light circuit.

I have a 15 and added a relay/fuse in the open blower position to control the added headlights. Don't know if later models have that blank relay position.

Quote from Roy658

I have a 15 and added a relay/fuse in the open blower position to control the added headlights. Don't know if later models have that blank relay position.

Unfortunately, the blower circuit is gone. @KayTwo and I have the same model (2016.5 Blue Fire LE) and we only have one open socket available when fully stock (fog lights) and I'm guessing his fogs are already using that socket.

As an aside, I'm glad we've been going the rounds on this as it now occurs to me that I could have tapped the factory relays for my own setup and I could have used an in-line fuse on the Halos. That would have been a lot tidier than the fugly relay set up I have. Hindsight is a bitch. I guess I know what I'll be doing today.

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Easiest is Bluetooth fuse box and can control each circuit individually and have them change with speed or dim the Halo's then program then to shut off what ever time frame you want when you turn off the ignition. Say headlights instantly the halos 5 min.

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^ agree with this and the others that are giving you advice to install the smart fuse box that Slingmods sells.

It will give you a lot more capabilities without drilling holes for switches and having a wiring mess. Not just on getting it right, but actually feeding all of the wiring in a clean fashion.

And it makes changing on the go so easy, just like texting. The only safe way to use it is to stop and us your smartphone.

I like the idea of the smart fuse box, but @Roy658 makes a valid point about changes on the fly. Its bad enough that we use our phones as extensions to our infotainment systems. Also, using an app to control primary vehicle systems like your headlights can be risky. Tactile switches are dedicated, more reliable, and allows changes without taking your eyes off the road. If you do have to look down, a quick glance tells you everything you need to know.

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I also like this option...