Conservative Politics & Daily Events Discussion

Quote from Frankie55

I think it would be a great idea to include proper driver interaction with law enforcement as a requirement and having it intergraded into the process of obtaining a drivers license.

why hasn't the obvious been stated yet. The majority of these deaths are because they resisted arrest. And not just slightly but there was clearly a prolonged violent resistance that involved multiple cops being abused. Most of the offenders also have previous altercations.

As far as Geraldo is concerned he is always on the side of the underdog no matter what. Right or wrong doesn’t matter to him. He makes me sick.

Quote from billythekidd

Uh, I think you missed the point... I know firing bullets into the air is dangerous and illegal... But so is blocking traffic on a 6 lane highway... braking windows out of cars and trying to drag people out of their cars.... Hell, use a blank... the noise is what the bitches will run from...

As for the flag... yes, she must remove it....

I get it. The point is this in some instances has gone way past peaceful protests. Once they crossed that line lethal force should be applied. If you don’t want shot go home. This was your final warning. We can not surrender the country to idiots. The damage has probably crossed the billion/s dollar mark.

There have already been protests organized by 11 year old kids. No way should they have that power. Social media should be nationalized for that reason. To stop minors from any type of incitement. Even if they end up being peaceful. Who is financially responsible? Who is going to be financially responsible if there is death and injuries? Who is going to assume the liability? Actions have serious consequences.

I think the biggest issue the Atlanta police will have in defending their actions in the Wendy's event is the fact that they used lethal force to defend themselves from a taser, a weapon the police themselves say is non-lethal.

The simple fact that the police constantly defend the use and carrying of tasers as being non lethal will make it almost impossible for the officer to say he was in fear for his own life - - that added to the fact that in earlier videos it seems very clear that they already had made sure the man had no weapons it would seem that it will be a very up hill battle trying to convince anyone that the officer was in fear for his life

dot get me wrong - what the suspect did was stupid and wrong and he himself created the situation that led to his shooting - - but even so I see it as a very difficult situation trying to convince a jury that you were justified in shooting a suspect who is attempting to run away from a minor offense for pointing a taser at you when your own people say that tasers are non-lethal - - on top of that the fact that the suspect was shot twice in the back and that just doesn't look like a necessary use of force

Where is self responsibility? If the person complied with police he would still be alive. I'm not condoning the shooting but the perp bares some responsibility for what occurred. Seems like police are alittle quick on the draw in SOME cases.

Quote from Edward Neal

I think the biggest issue the Atlanta police will have in defending their actions in the Wendy's event is the fact that they used lethal force to defend themselves from a taser, a weapon the police themselves say is non-lethal.

The simple fact that the police constantly defend the use and carrying of tasers as being non lethal will make it almost impossible for the officer to say he was in fear for his own life - - that added to the fact that in earlier videos it seems very clear that they already had made sure the man had no weapons it would seem that it will be a very up hill battle trying to convince anyone that the officer was in fear for his life

dot get me wrong - what the suspect did was stupid and wrong and he himself created the situation that led to his shooting - - but even so I see it as a very difficult situation trying to convince a jury that you were justified in shooting a suspect who is attempting to run away from a minor offense for pointing a taser at you when your own people say that tasers are non-lethal - - on top of that the fact that the suspect was shot twice in the back and that just doesn't look like a necessary use of force

Presenting the counter argument:

Once the suspect resisted arrest, assaulted two officer, stole the Taser, ran, and fired it twice at the officers (watch the video, once before he ran, once while running), it was no longer a "minor offense".

The Mayor fired two officers just a couple weeks ago for using a taser on protester, she claimed they used "unnecessary lethal force"

A suspect gains control over an officers Taser, uses it on the officer, incapacitated him, takes his weapon, and kills him. This has happened more than once which is why threatening an officer with a Taser is seen the same as a gun.

A three shot group is standard practice.

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Regarding the protester shot in New Mexico ......

I challenge anyone to find the Police report witness statement reported by any MSM ... I can't find it ....

"The blue-shirted shooter pulled a gun from his pocket, after wasting a can of pepper spray on protesters that had pushed him down and were advancing on him. The injured guy was one of the people threatening him."

Responding to a question if the shooter seemed to be with any group: "The guys in fatigues with the rifles? Weapons on display? Not involved."

And yet the local Chief, Mayor, and Governor have publicly blamed the "Civil Guard" members and threatened with prosecuting them as a "Hate Group" before the investigation has been completed ..... not that they have the Federal authority to even do so.

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EDIT: Outside of the local news I had to go to an AUSTRALIAN news source to find any mention of the actual events and the video showing the confrontation that lead up to the shooting. The shooter was first hit with a skateboard by a guy dressed in black with a black hood and face covering. Gee, wonder why the US MSM isn't reporting the facts.

Full video link: https://twitter.com/meganrabun…/1272735796949213184?s=20

"part of the crowd turned its attention to an unidentified man in a blue T-shirt, who appeared to be arguing with the group.

One protester hit the man with a skateboard. He reacted by retreating a short distance down the street, stopping to briefly gesture back at the crowd before walking away.

Video footage of the incident, obtained by the local TV station KOB 4 Eyewitness News, shows a protester yelling: “Get his licence plate. Follow him.”

A second person can also be heard telling the man in the blue shirt to “get the f*** out”.

Then, several protesters chase him down and tackle him to the ground. A scuffle ensues, causing a sudden panic.

“He’s gonna f***ing kill you. He’s gonna f***ing kill you. Run!” the first voice shouts, as gunshots ring out. The crowd, including the cameraman, then starts to sprint away, as screams ring out."

https://www.news.com.au/world/…3d9ff095d61216fd284b633e0

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A solution to the policeman training may be to establish a boot camp, much like the armies basic training, staffed by officers from every state who are approved by the state. Every new officer must go through the training and pass before going into service. Existing officers who have had crefible complaints lodged against them must also go through the training. This can all be funded by the states. Curriculum must be approved by majority of states and signed off on by the fed. Now I know there will be people who say your creating a police state but ant other ideas?

Here is a video from San Jose California that made me think about the firing a couple of rounds into the air... https://heavy.com/news/2020/05…st-highway-freeway-video/

Quote from Orangeman

Presenting the counter argument:

Once the suspect resisted arrest, assaulted two officer, stole the Taser, ran, and fired it twice at the officers (watch the video, once before he ran, once while running), it was no longer a "minor offense".

The Mayor fired two officers just a couple weeks ago for using a taser on protester, she claimed they used "unnecessary lethal force"

A suspect gains control over an officers Taser, uses it on the officer, incapacitated him, takes his weapon, and kills him. This has happened more than once which is why threatening an officer with a Taser is seen the same as a gun.

A three shot group is standard practice.

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I am no legal expert and I sure do not know the policies of every department, but it has always been my understanding that police are only supposed to use lethal force when they believe there is a threat to either their own life or the life of someone else - - in this case the guy was running away with a non lethal weapon in his hand - - Seriously in everything you have seen does the suspect look like a threat to anyone's life? - - I sure haven't seen it

Don't get me wrong - I truly hope there is some bit of evidence that I havn't seen that will show there was a reasonable fear that lethal force was needed, I love the police and totally respect the job they have to do

Quote from Edward Neal

I think the biggest issue the Atlanta police will have in defending their actions in the Wendy's event is the fact that they used lethal force to defend themselves from a taser, a weapon the police themselves say is non-lethal.

The simple fact that the police constantly defend the use and carrying of tasers as being non lethal will make it almost impossible for the officer to say he was in fear for his own life - - that added to the fact that in earlier videos it seems very clear that they already had made sure the man had no weapons it would seem that it will be a very up hill battle trying to convince anyone that the officer was in fear for his life

dot get me wrong - what the suspect did was stupid and wrong and he himself created the situation that led to his shooting - - but even so I see it as a very difficult situation trying to convince a jury that you were justified in shooting a suspect who is attempting to run away from a minor offense for pointing a taser at you when your own people say that tasers are non-lethal - - on top of that the fact that the suspect was shot twice in the back and that just doesn't look like a necessary use of force

Just to clarify some terms. A taser is not considered a non-lethal weapon. Non-lethal would indicate the weapon can't cause death or serious injury. Tasers are considered less-lethal as they are less likely to cause death or serious injury.

Please stop referring to less-lethal weapons as non-lethal.

Funny, no protests regarding this... White Cop shot in the back of the head by a black man... Sylvester Holt... When are the riots starting???

Quote from Bill Martin

While I basically never practiced criminal law I still vaguely remember the basics. Red is absolutely correct - a taser CAN be lethal...

I believe that any criminal lawyer worth his salt could make a jury believe that the officer fired in fear of his life should Georgia choose to prosecute. Granted the optics of this case are not great coming off the heels of the Floyd murder but really / does anybody know what was in that officers mind when he fired BUT HIM. Also the officers were nothing but polite showing no racial biases until the suspect resisted arrest. If you never walked in a cops shoes - judge not lest ye be judged!!

You're going to hear the phrase "objective reasonableness" thrown around reference this. If you're really bored google Graham v. Connor,

And the hits keep on coming-

This was published in today’s Chicago SunTimes news paper. Chicago holds the top spot of being one of the most dangerous cities to live in. I can be very open minded but My take on this is the Editor is fanning the flames of more racial division in light of current events. There has to be an end to this beforean end to society.

Quote from Bill Martin

Red - got another question for you that I would like it from a cop perspective. I love to watch hunting & animal wildlife shows. I have seen them shoot a tranquilizer dart into a full grown elephant or rhinoceros and bring them to their knees in less than a minute. Why couldn’t they develop a dart gun for humans that accomplished the same thing and do away with cops carrying tasers. Seems to me that the cop would have real ammunition In one gun if they are fired upon but much longer reaching weapon than a taser if not life threatening to arrest the resisting suspect and everybody lives? Am I way off on my idea??

The big issue is time and I would think for a tranquilizer dosage. The taser is an immediate lock up if it works properly with darts and pain compliance on contact. What could a suspect accomplish in 30 seconds after a tranquilizer dart hits them? I'm guessing that tranquilizer darts are more lethal than a taser but that's a little out of my lane.

I was arresting people before tasers were on the scene. We used physical strength and fighting skills to get people cuffed if they wanted to fight. Size and physical strength declined as hiring standards changed so equalizers were needed. I have used an LVR (rear naked choke in MMA vernacular) to get people cuffed. Never killed or injured anybody using it, that was prohibited years ago. A shoulder pin was the next neck restraint we were taught. It used the forearm across the side of the neck to put them out, never used it. Now I'm sure that ones out too.

Physically over power them by hand

Taser/sprays like OC

Baton

Firearm

or simply stop making arrests if they resist.

I think the last one will become the norm.

Red it would have been a whole different story if that had been a female trying to put the cuffs on him.

Something to consider in this use of force to make arrest discussion. Officers have discretion on the street as to making a physical custody arrest except if there's a warrant. One of my toughest fights during an arrest was for a minor traffic warrant. Officers do not have discretion when a valid warrant exist. Failing to make the arrest is a criminal violation for the officer. Judges can't be held liable for their warrants but officers can for serving them. That needs to change in our current environment.

Quote from FunCycle

Red it would have been a whole different story if that had been a female trying to put the cuffs on him.

Are you saying genders aren't equal?🙊