Alpha Supercharger Initial Impressions/Review

Quote from Slingrazor

I really like your expertise in these matters. You make a great product that I would have liked to purchase if your price point wasn't so far over the top. We are now 2 years into the development of Slingshot power and you are just starting to let us know how we are so wrong in our thinking. I look forward to your release of a reliable power option that would be affordable to most of us on the forum to back up your words.I was not being sarcastic when I said you have a very good product line.
I also would not have posted this if I thought you would not understand.

My Sling kit is as cheap as I will make it, there's no money in it honestly, I just like supplying quality stuff for those that want it. My typical turbo setups I build are 12-20k, hardware alone, outside of the Sling kit,12k is the least I've ever charged for a full setup and it includes fueling and tuning. I've cut it down as much as I can. The turbo Alpha and Hahn use retail is around $850.00, the Borg Warner EFR I use is $2800 retail. As I mentioned above, turbo tech, this is why the EFR I use which is over 20% bigger out spools the Alpha setup by over 500rpm. There's a reason my kit costs what it costs, it's all in materials. There's less than $500 profit in the kit in itself after all the pieces are brought together. The only place I make money on the kit is in the installation, extra's/add-ons, and the customization of each setup that I'm known for. If you haven't seen my setup in person next to any of the others, look closely at everything when you do come across one, even short of all the billet pieces I use for it. My motto has always been "It's all in the details," it truly is. I'm a perfectionist to the 100th degree, you get more than you pay for with my setup and I refuse to dumb it down or use cheaper components just to hit a price point. I don't expect to compete with any of the other FI suppliers, for those that want and can afford the best in a turbo setup, I'm here =)

-Shawn-

Quote from TheRock

At the end of the day, no matter how fat or sticky of a tire you put on the rear, there is only 1 wheel back there. Unless you go with the quad set up of course. Completely stock you can spin the back tire all the way through 3rd gear. There comes a point where HP numbers are strictly for bragging rights but does absolutely nothing for you as long as you can't hook up the rear wheel.

I am with you on this one. If it was in the stars I would be purchasing a quad kit. My grip has gone way up with a 295 45 18 Nitto 555 G2 at 20 psi. Enough grip that I will be looking for a clutch soon.

@TheRock you better let me take it for a spin when you get it.

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Quote from TheRock

At the end of the day, no matter how fat or sticky of a tire you put on the rear, there is only 1 wheel back there. Unless you go with the quad set up of course. Completely stock you can spin the back tire all the way through 3rd gear. There comes a point where HP numbers are strictly for bragging rights but does absolutely nothing for you as long as you can't hook up the rear wheel.

I got mine to hook with a single tire in the back on the racetrack.

One thing.....obviously if you wanna spin/burn a tire you can by slamming the throttle full open. They other thing about added HP is rolling at 50 and giving it some gas and pull hard away from those next to you. That's amazing feeling with 280 HP and even more amazing at 330ish HP and I can't wait to try it with close to 500HP!

Quote from FFShawn

It won't be on a gauge, it will be general info from the specific turbo or blower. Look up the model specifically and the manufacturer will list what CFM that unit flows. It's all based off the size of the compressor wheel. I'm just saying to not take 9psi as 9psi across the board for all setups available for the Slingshot. For example, 9psi on my EFR kit is flowing over 20% more volume than an Alpha kit at 9psi. Lots of things play a roll, mainly how strong the torque spike is that takes out most motors. The harder and sooner boost comes on will typically cause more harm to weak components as the engine and vehicle has less momentum. Once everything is moving in unison you can lay into the power and keep motors happy, even weak motors. Boost controller tech has added many user adjusted variables as years pass to help smooth out the onset of boost to make everything happy and smooth.
Most people think lag is associated to a bigger turbo, yes true to an extent however flow efficiency plays an important role in this as well. A larger turbo can out spool a smaller more spikey variant just using proper flow dynamics. Modern turbo tech also helps with this by incorporating different ball bearing designs, lightweight materials IE billet comp wheels, Ti exhaust wheels, v-band inlets etc.

It's a complicated process, just because you can bolt an FI setup together and everything connects doesn't mean you've covered essential pieces of the process.

Okay, I will admit that I am a Noob, and I'm learning, or trying to through these threads. I'm also trying to make myself aware of what I need both engine and power wise to make the most of the sling's capabilities while staying within a budget. So @rabtech gave an approximate "safe" zone with regards to boost in a stock engine. I understand that a bit. You bring in CFM's, which I also understand, but give no baseline for a "safe" CFM. If I am looking to boost my stock engine, and reducing the possibility of blowing said engine, then what CFM parameters should I be looking at?

What he is saying essentially is this...

When you have a turbo of 55mm outputting into a 2" pipe and have restricted flow thru the intercooler and crappy air flow characteristics going into the intake you will make LESS power at 7psi of boost or pressure than if you have that same 55mm turbo outputting 7psi into 3" pipe and have a smooth air passage thru the intercooler and a smooth transition into the intake.

Basic physics.

Bigger tubes and smooth flow at 7psi = more CFM and more molecules of oxygen.

Smaller tubes and restrictions built into the design of the turbo system will = less CFM even at the same 7psi. So less oxygen for the engine to burn.

And then there is this whole other world of efficiency and how fast the spool up can be based on how fast the plumbing can move the air and then you get into turbulence and heat vortices and all kinds of cool physics...

But that is all I know without going into AR values and and ball bearing resistance and thermal drops and spikes.

@rabtech I understand the basic physics behind what you are trying to say. My point was that you generalized everything into a fairly easy to understand "stay below 8-9lbs of boost" on a stock engine and you should be okay. Shawn countered that and said it's not about boost, it's about CFM, and that's what you should be looking at. So I am curious as to what levels of CFM I should be looking for in a stock engine/exhaust setup to run "safely". I guess part of me is being a wench, but when someone gives a baseline safe level, and someone else comes back and says you're doing it wrong, it would be nice if they followed up with what they believe the "safe" standards to be.

Quote from TheRock

@WOLF, that is old... from 2011. Here is the newest thing I could find on it - Believe the Hype: KTM X-Bow Coming To North America – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

I should add though, I'm not interested if it will not be street legal... that means I could only drive it on the track... I'm not made of that kind of money.... or any money for that matter!

My bad. I knew I read something about it recently, but obviously just grabbed the first thing I saw without further attention to detail.

@sideseatdriver your looking for a safe range. You want the most efficient CFM for the needs of the engine at any given load. And I can take a stab at how you would get that value. But @FFShawn would have the turbine figures and the base numbers on the head of the engine.

But im not sure even @FFShawn can give you a definitive SAFE number because you would have to have all your components flow tested at different psi ratings and figure in static loss of all the components up to the intake. And then to get it correct you would have to have your heads flow tested. So if you knew all those figures you might be able to get a throughput CFM number.

Then as I mentioned you would have to know what cubic volume of air you need at a specific psi based on rpm and load. And then you could make some calculations as to how much pressure based on the cfm at any given rpm (up to waste gate release).

Am I close to what your talking about @FFShawn?

My head hurts!

Just adding my 2 cents here. The reason people use boost pressure to "estimate" power is that boost is the easiest way for a consumer to understand. 12 pounds is more powerful than 9 pounds on that set-up. Since most slingshots are using turbos from less than a handful of suppliers, it's a fast way to compare

I'm still learning all of this so forgive me if this is a stupid question. Is CFM always at 100% or 90%?

sent from the Bader Badger, FAST red slingshot

Quote from FFShawn

It won't be on a gauge, it will be general info from the specific turbo or blower. Look up the model specifically and the manufacturer will list what CFM that unit flows. It's all based off the size of the compressor wheel. I'm just saying to not take 9psi as 9psi across the board for all setups available for the Slingshot. For example, 9psi on my EFR kit is flowing over 20% more volume than an Alpha kit at 9psi. Lots of things play a roll, mainly how strong the torque spike is that takes out most motors. The harder and sooner boost comes on will typically cause more harm to weak components as the engine and vehicle has less momentum. Once everything is moving in unison you can lay into the power and keep motors happy, even weak motors. Boost controller tech has added many user adjusted variables as years pass to help smooth out the onset of boost to make everything happy and smooth.
Most people think lag is associated to a bigger turbo, yes true to an extent however flow efficiency plays an important role in this as well. A larger turbo can out spool a smaller more spikey variant just using proper flow dynamics. Modern turbo tech also helps with this by incorporating different ball bearing designs, lightweight materials IE billet comp wheels, Ti exhaust wheels, v-band inlets etc.

It's a complicated process, just because you can bolt an FI setup together and everything connects doesn't mean you've covered essential pieces of the process.

As I take a deep breath... wow! I need some ibuprofen

Anybody want to talk about linear accelerators, wave guides or particulate energy....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit. ~Emmett Brown