New SS news?

Quote from SlingLow

Now this confuses me Bigdog . The autocycle designation was created for 3 wheel vehicles without a straddle seat and handlebars. How does additional entries into the autocycle market change that designation to include safety equipment applied only to automobiles???

the problem is at the federal level not the State - currently all Slingshots are federally classified as motorcycles, there is no Federal autocycle classification yet - - there is a proposed bill that would make a federal autocycle classification H.R. 2381

if you read that I think you will see how that could be a problem

Thanks Edward Neal but I don't care enough about this to actually research it - just enough to comment on posts here. I'm sure any changes will be reported and discussed ad nauseum here on the forum. Selfish me says, "I already got mine - do what you will'.

Quote from SlingLow

Thanks Edward Neal but I don't care enough about this to actually research it - just enough to comment on posts here. I'm sure any changes will be reported and discussed ad nauseum here on the forum. Selfish me says, "I already got mine - do what you will'.

I agree - I got mine

Quote from WingShot

Honda was burnt back in 70-80s with the Big Red three wheelers and swore they would never touch it again. The Goldwing community was begging for a Factory Honda trike. Nada.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

For me a trike design (handlebars, short wheel track) is not what I am talking about. I am talking about an autocycle design. A car-motorcyle hybrid design (car engine, single rear wheel, etc) that polaris and vanderhall has successully created. I don't think Honda has ever tried this.

The issue of autocycles turning into cars in terms of regulations will be mandated by historical data. As more of the autocycles get on the road more crash data will exist. It will be up to the lawmakes to decide if autocycles become more dangerous (to the drivers and to others on the road) then say a motorcycle hence the need for airbags, bumpers etc.

The only way we see autocycles becoming heavily regulated is if automakers like GM and others raise a stink as to why autocycles get away with less regulation.

Thus the more playing in this autocyle field the better since there will be more invested in the concept.

The biggest factor for regulations going forward is weight, as long as the weight is kept under a ton the more likely it will not become regulated like a car.

The cat is already out of the bag so it wouldn't make a difference if a big car maker like Honda started making slingshot clones. Personally I think the more the better. Competition breeds better design and performance.

Quote from neostar

For me a trike design (handlebars, short wheel track) is not what I am talking about. I am talking about an autocycle design. A car-motorcyle hybrid design (car engine, single rear wheel, etc) that polaris and vanderhall has successully created. I don't think Honda has ever tried this.

A number have floated concepts. Lots of time looking into ROI. With 40k sould in over 4 years the numbers speak to why no further action has been taken by others.

Last one is a Honda concept. More city trike than anything else. They did have a concept I think 2 years ago that was a shot at a KTM X-bow so (4) wheels

peugeot-20cup-concept-1.jpg

Quote from Ruptured Duck

A number have floated concepts. Lots of time looking into ROI. With 40k sould in over 4 years the numbers speak to why no further action has been taken by others.

Last one is a Honda concept. More city trike than anything else. They did have a concept I think 2 years ago that was a shot at a KTM X-bow so (4) wheels

Never in a million years would I think something like this

https://powersports.honda.com/…/honda%20side%20by%20side

would be a better seller than a slingshot type vehicle by Honda. I still can't believe there is a sustainable market for those. I have never seen one in action in real life. Seen my share of slingshots (before getting one) but never a side-by-side from Honda.

Matter of fact I would have to have a Honda exec actually show me a slideshow with hard sales figures to prove to me that their side-by-side has more sales potential then an autocycle. To me there is just way more urban-use sales potential then off-road customer base.

I mean the talon 1000r retails for the exact same price as a baseline sling for pete's sake. How does Honda think the slingshot design not sell???? That's crazy and I ain't buying it no really I would never buy a talon @ $21k.

Now you can make an argument that Honda along with Yamaha/others don't want to go into the autocycle business because of fear of cannibalizing their motorcycle sales, ok now that makes sense but to say that there isn't a name-brand demand for autocycles is silly. Campagna did it for 20 years until they were priced out of the market thanks to vanderhall and polaris.

The aftermarket industry would go bonkers for a Honda autocycle. I mean just look at what people do (with their money) nowadays with small cars like Hondas/VW/etc.

the only reason why Honda or Yamaha would want to go into the reverse trike / autocycle business would be if they thought it would increase their profits and I highly suspect they have done the math and decided it wouldn't

Quote from SlingLow

Now this confuses me Bigdog . The autocycle designation was created for 3 wheel vehicles without a straddle seat and handlebars. How does additional entries into the autocycle market change that designation to include safety equipment applied only to automobiles???

If the government decides that there needs to be more regulations on a new vehicle called (marketed and sold as) an “auto cycle” which right now they are just sorta making it fit into the motorcycle category with some slight changes...don’t forget now it’s sold as a motorcycle.....some people don’t feel that it is because of the steering wheel. So to cover their ass from liability or because one of their constituents was killed doing something stupid in one...the family lawyer will push the family to sue so he can get a paycheck...and the other politicians from different states will take notice and say we have them too...I better be proactive and get my name on that legislation too.....so I can get re-elected...the snow ball starts rolling.....and we know everything in DC is downhill.....it won’t be able to be stopped....all because another manufacturer thought they could out maneuver Polaris and corner the market with their new fangled autocycle.

Don’t discount one up man ship when it comes to making money.....the new CEO wants a bigger multimillion dollars salary ...and the bottom line beans counters want their cut. The office of government vehicle safety needs to prove they are doing something for their paycheck. Look at all these unneeded regulations we just implemented ..

It’s sold as a motorcycle.....so who and why did they feel Polaris is wrong? Someone stuck their finger in it and said....no wait....it sounds more like an autocycle....look at these “motorcycle” regulations..

No good is going to come from another company trying to compete with the slingshot. Especially if they want to start out of the gate by classifying it as an autocycle that will open Pandora’s box...the regulators already have their foot in the door....adding a few words here and a sentence there....next thing you know we’re reclassified and might have to.....depending on your states safety inspection polices ...come into compliance with the new classification. To be considered street legal.....

Which state just dropped the “dune buggy” classification? There is no such thing anymore.....Don’t say it can’t happen...

Quote from edwardaneal

the only reason why Honda or Yamaha would want to go into the reverse trike / autocycle business would be if they thought it would increase their profits and I highly suspect they have done the math and decided it wouldn't

Well then those razer 1000r's @ $21k must be raking in the dough for Honda then. My money is that they don't want to cannibalize their motorcycle sales.

Quote from Bigdog

No good is going to come from another company trying to compete with the slingshot. Especially if they want to start out of the gate by classifying it as an autocycle that will open Pandora’s box...the regulators already have their foot in the door....adding a few words here and a sentence there....next thing you know we’re reclassified and might have to.....depending on your states safety inspection polices ...come into compliance with the new classification. To be considered street legal.....

Which state just dropped the “dune buggy” classification? There is no such thing anymore.....Don’t say it can’t happen...

Well you might not think competition is good but I sure do. Vanderhall would not have offered a $26k Speedster version if it wasn't for the threat from Polaris.

Right now most state laws are already calling the 3 wheel/steering wheel/seat belt vehicle an autocycle. It's still registers as a motorcycle for now but it's inevitable that will change. Vanderhall's CEO talked about their creations a couple of years ago as officially an autocycle on the Jay leno show and if you watched recent reviews of the slingshot, the discussions always highlight that the slingshot is now considered an autocycle.

Here is an example timestamped:

So the label change has already happened and it's old news. Like I said historical crash data will determine the fate of how much car regulation the autocycle will receive in the future.

Quote from neostar

Well then those razer 1000r's @ $21k must be raking in the dough for Honda then. My money is that they don't want to cannibalize their motorcycle sales.

I know a dealer that says in the last year and half he sold more ATV/OHV than everything else combined quite literally can't keep them in stock.

His only complain is the amount of floor space they take given the fact that he was originally a "powersports" dealer so doesn't have the room to have a crapton of vehicles on hand.

It's not a reverse trike like the Slingshot and is definitely more motorcycle-like in handling since it's based on the leaning technology that went into the Carver out of The Netherlands - http://flytheroad.com/. I had high hpes for them, but everything seemed to fizzle out after a few years. Sure as H... would have been a lot of fun, but if/when the front wheel loses grip, watch out!

I had a deposit with these guys (https://www.litmotors.com/), but pulled it when I bought my Slingshot since Lit Motors was still int he planning stages (still are, as far as I can tell). Based on some of their test demos, they will have a remarkably stable product if they can make it to market.

My dealers slingshot show room can hold 6 or 7. The quad showroom is 4 times as big.....and it’s always packed with quads....last time I was there a month ago they had 5 slingshots on the floor....and one parked outside the showroom. .now I know they have a storage building up the road.....that’s where the got mine the day I bought it....

But my guess is they are selling many quads because of their location out in the country....somewhat near a national forest and people that have camps...and farms.

They did have a fully loaded diesel quad for over $30,000

Quote from Bigdog

My dealers slingshot show room can hold 6 or 7. The quad showroom is 4 times as big.....and it’s always packed with quads....last time I was there a month ago they had 5 slingshots on the floor....and one parked outside the showroom. .now I know they have a storage building up the road.....that’s where the got mine the day I bought it....

But my guess is they are selling many quads because of their location out in the country....somewhat near a national forest and people that have camps...and farms.

They did have a fully loaded diesel quad for over $30,000

That's my point exactly how many more urban centers are there compared to rural centers (near off-road locations). It's all about population density. I have no doubt that ATVs sell real well in rural locations but that number would be dwarfed compared to urban locations selling on-road rec. vehicles. At some point Honda, Yamaha and others will finally see how Polaris/Vanderhall got the model right and they will play catch-up once they realize the autocycle will compliment their motorcycle sales and not threaten it. With Honda's resources and infrastructure they will quickly catch up, Yamaha on the other hand, would have a longer path unfortunately.

Quote from Neosolidus

I know a dealer that says in the last year and half he sold more ATV/OHV than everything else combined quite literally can't keep them in stock.

His only complain is the amount of floor space they take given the fact that he was originally a "powersports" dealer so doesn't have the room to have a crapton of vehicles on hand.

Guarantee you the opposite discussion happens with a dealership near an dense urban center. The irony is that polaris by nature is an off-road (rural,snow,water) business so logically their dealerships are located closer to rural than urban dense populations. Time will tell where the autocycle business goes. Judging by discussions I have had with motorcyle riders (who never seen an autocycle) they almost instantly see the appeal of the autocycle especially when married.

The "is it a motorcycle or is it an autocycle" question is not a black and white question where it is either one or the other - fact is its both

consider the fact that almost all of the laws that define what an autocycle is start out by saying it is a type of motorcycle even the federal bill that has been pending for a long time now starts out:

“(1) ‘autocycle’ means a motorcycle with 3 wheels in contact with the ground, front-wheel drive, a fully enclosed occupant compartment, and a steering wheel, which is subject to applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards, as determined necessary by the Secretary of Transportation through regulation.”.

not all motorcycles are autocycles, but all autocycles are motorcycles

Quote from edwardaneal

The "is it a motorcycle or is it an autocycle" question is not a black and white question where it is either one or the other - fact is its both

consider the fact that almost all of the laws that define what an autocycle is start out by saying it is a type of motorcycle even the federal bill that has been pending for a long time now starts out:

“(1) ‘autocycle’ means a motorcycle with 3 wheels in contact with the ground, front-wheel drive, a fully enclosed occupant compartment, and a steering wheel, which is subject to applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards, as determined necessary by the Secretary of Transportation through regulation.”.

not all motorcycles are autocycles, but all autocycles are motorcycles

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I assumed autocycle was it's own category but if it's a sub-category of motorcycle so be it. All the better since motorcycles have less safety regulations than cars.

Aside from all of this, any more news on the new SS??

Quote from billythekidd

Aside from all of this, any more news on the new S.S??