“HYDROPLANING”

I think 45 mph in heavy rain with summer z rated tires and a very light vehicle spells big issues ahead.

The few times I have driven in the rain I havent had any problems or noticed any more tendency to hydroplane than the car I drove before switching to the slingshot. Admittedly we dont tend to get as much rain as most, but I have driven in a pretty good downpour on the Freeway and it drove just fine - - Having said this I do run an all season tire on the rear and soon will have the same on the front

I noticed in the other thread you mentioned that you now have wider tires - - from what I have read wider tires are actually more susceptible to hydroplaning than a narrower tire a link

I've ridden in heavy downpours with the oem tire with not much thread left and 555 G2 at 50 mph and no problems.

Quote from silver fox

SS hydroplaning

I strongly believe it is the traction control that caused my (AII) SS to go out of control, in fact this was the second time that day.

My theory is as follows;

Weather conditions light drizzle wet roads with a stream of water crossing the road at one point. One front tire hits the stream of water causing an inconsistency between the front tires causing the opposite front tire to apply the break, about that point in time the rear wheel hits that water now causing the slingshot to pivot or start the spin.

A more in-depth explanation = when one front (RT) tire hits water it hydroplanes and slows that tire speed and pulls the SS in that (RT)direction. at this point your SS has now slightly changed directions. This action has caused the traction control to apply brake pressure to the (Left) front wheel and now causing the SS to change directions again. At this point your rear tire is now in that water puddle (no traction) which magnifies the brake pressure and causes the rear end to spin out towards the right. Your rear tire has completed a zig and a zag and now you’re in for the ride until you can countersteer and bring the SS under control.

Obviously the better your tires are the more traction you have also the type of tire pattern helps disperse the water.

The first time my SS hydroplaned I was in the far left lane with medium to heavy traffic. I lifted my foot off the gas peddle and counter steered eventually sending my Sling across 4 lanes of traffic at a 45° angle to the lanes of traffic and into the safety lane on the right-hand side of the road. I countersteer again to correct my angles to the road and picked up another spin finally getting it pointed in the right direction and back in control dropping more than 25 mph from the initial speed I was going.
The second time in heavier rain traveling about 45 mph I was on the high side of the slope of the road in the far right hand lane when that spin started again. I headed to the left side this time and hit my brakes then totally losing control and the concrete barrier jumped out at me.

Given the traffic conditions I was extremely lucky to be in an empty pocket when these events happened.

My suggestion is as I will do from now on, is to deactivate the traction control in wet conditions.

Sent from my iPhone using Polaris Slingshot Forum mobile app

Display More

Thanks for sharing your experience with Hydroplaning. I am editing my original post. I feel we should drive our Slingshots within the effective operating safety features, like the ESP (Electronic Stability Program). There is a warning message that clearly states that the effectiveness of these features may be diminished during Hydroplaning. So, I would say avoid driving in Rain and if caught in the rain Slow down to a safe speed. I don't drive in the rain.

I've driven in the rain quite often, I haven't [so far] Hydroplaned . But with the stock tires the rear does get squirrelly.....I has a Spyder did the same, Nature of the beasts... My Tri-Glide on the other hand with two rear M/S tires would plow though 3 inches or less of snow without any problems...

Quote from silver fox

I strongly believe it is the traction control that caused my (AII) SS to go out of control

I posted a similar theory a few months ago about the ESP (not just traction control), so I tend to agree with you.

Quote from Mike in Victoria BC

I have a theory I haven't tested... that if you're in hydroplaning conditions it would be best to turn OFF the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) by long-pressing the traction control button for 5 seconds.

It seems the Slingshot is prone to spinning when hydroplaning (rather than just continuing in the direction of travel). I wonder if the ESP is getting confused if just one front wheel loses traction in the water and that tire rotation slows compared to the other front wheel. Perhaps ESP is getting fooled into thinking you're spinning and then it's applying the brake to the faster wheel to try to get the wheels back to the same speed (as it would to control a real spin)? Thus actually causing the spin that it is trying to fix?

Just a theory.

Even the manual suggests that it isn't very helpful to have ESP on in hydroplaning conditions, so I think I'll try running with it OFF in the next heavy rainstorm.

"The electronic stability control system does not compensate for or reduce the risks associated with:
• excessive speed
• reduced traction on rough, uneven or loose surfaces
• poor judgment
• improper operation
• hydroplaning

WARNING! Stability control, traction control and anti-lock braking systems rely on grip between the tires and the road to function properly. In a hydroplane situation, tires lose contact with the road and the effectiveness of these features may be diminished."

Display More

Quote from Mike in Victoria BC

I posted a similar theory a few months ago about the ESP (not just traction control), so I tend to agree with you.

That has been my thoughts on the issue from the beginning. I have been unfortunate enough to have ridden several hundred miles in the rain and I turn off traction control and stability control if the road is beyond damp. I have read every account I can find on the subject of "hydroplaning" in a SS and I have fully convinced myself that it is safer to slow down and turn it all off when treading water.

Interesting discussion where my question would be if the traction control does not work on wet or slippery roads, then when does it become useful?

Many miles operating the Grasshopper on wet roads here in the PNW where we've only hydroplaned once hitting a young river running across the Interstate, where I was able to keep it on the road, but I do not really know if it was my experience with wet/snowy/icy roads or it was the traction control? By the way, the Suburban and Corvette that were behind me both ended up in the blackberry bushes.

Bill

I am editing my original post. I feel we should drive our Slingshots within the effective operating safety features, like the ESP (Electronic Stability Program). There is a warning message that clearly states that the effectiveness of these features may be diminished during Hydroplaning. So, I would say avoid driving in Rain and if caught in the rain Slow down to a safe speed. I don't drive in the rain.
Let's all be safe, speed is a big factor in Hydroplaning, you can control that and your ESP will help you when you don't hydroplane. You have more conditions under those condition.

Quote from samowens44

The discussion has totally overlooked a key feature of the ESP System. Along with Stability and Traction Control, it has one other key feature, that is Steering Angle Sensor. There is a yaw control that is located in the middle of the Slingshot that is a pivot point and this monitors the spin of the Slingshot if it happens and determines the position of the steering wheel. It sends all this to the ECU to active Braking and engine rpm to bring the Slingshot back into control. This is a big part of the whole system that makes it possible to drive the Slingshot as safe as can be driven under most conditions. So, if someone can add to this feature, that would be good. From reading the Shop manual, I see that there are calibrations and such associated with this system. So this is a big help to keeping your slingshot going in the direction you are steering.

Sam what you are missing is the fact that under hydroplaning conditions the ECU is getting false information and it is trying to make a correction where none is needed. That in and of it's self in my opinion is what is causing the spins.

Is the term "traction control" being used incorrectly? I thought traction control only read the rear wheel and would cut the engine if spinning, and stability control read the front wheels and would apply braking.

Quote from BryanL

Is the term "traction control" being used incorrectly? I thought traction control only read the rear wheel and would cut the engine if spinning, and stability control read the front wheels and would apply braking.

I think you have it pretty much right but the electronic stability control also reads other sensors as well and uses the input from all of them to decide what action to take if any.

Quote from samowens44

So, I would say avoid driving in Rain and if caught in the rain Slow down to a safe speed.

Avoid driving in the rain? Well, I guess that would depend on where one rides. Here in the Pacific NorthWest, if we let rain/wet roads scare us into not riding, we might as well put our SlingShot into storage for half the year. Like I said previously, the Grasshopper has been part of our lives for 3 1/2 years now and we have only unintentionally sashayed down the highway once, and that was under exceptional conditions. Any vehicle can hydroplane, (like the Suburban and Corvette in my previous example, or the Ford 3/4 ton trucks we drove for a former employer, which were far worse than the SlingShot), where you just got to take the current conditions into account, install proper tires, and do the second part of your suggestion, ride/drive accordingly to lessen the opportunity for hydroplaning. Now, with that said, there is something most people fail to take into account, and that is how long has it been been since the last rain? Here in Oregon we have had a very long and dry summer where oil and other slippery stuff has been allowed to accumulate on our highways. As the rainy season gets underway again, this is a time when folks need to take extra precautions because just a little rain can turn the highway into snot until enough precipitation finally has an opportunity to wash the contaminants away.

Contrary to what is generally accepted, we all still have common sense, all we need is to practice using it!

Bill

Quote from wjfyfe

Avoid driving in the rain? Well, I guess that would depend on where one rides. Here in the Pacific NorthWest, if we let rain/wet roads scare us into not riding, we might as well put our SlingShot into storage for half the year. Like I said previously, the Grasshopper has been part of our lives for 3 1/2 years now and we have only unintentionally sashayed down the highway once, and that was under exceptional conditions. Any vehicle can hydroplane, (like the Suburban and Corvette in my previous example, or the Ford 3/4 ton trucks we drove for a former employer, which were far worse than the SlingShot), where you just got to take the current conditions into account, install proper tires, and do the second part of your suggestion, ride/drive accordingly to lessen the opportunity for hydroplaning. Now, with that said, there is something most people fail to take into account, and that is how long has it been been since the last rain? Here in Oregon we have had a very long and dry summer where oil and other slippery stuff has been allowed to accumulate on our highways. As the rainy season gets underway again, this is a time when folks need to take extra precautions because just a little rain can turn the highway into snot until enough precipitation finally has an opportunity to wash the contaminants away.
Contrary to what is generally accepted, we all still have common sense, all we need is to practice using it!

Bill

That is why I buy the high performance tires with the best looking tread pattern for the wet rides, the Riken/Raptor that I am running now proved itself in Maggie Valley when @Ghost and I rode 300 miles in one day in the rain. Gas stops only and the rain never stopped and the last 60 miles or so it was a flood coming down. The only problem that I had was learning how to use the brakes in the wet, as most people know, I use the brakes very little. I will not buy any tire that even looks like a drag slick for normal riding. The new General G-Max NR looks like it would be a good tire for wet weather riding also but I have only seen pictures of it.

Quote from FunCycle

The only problem that I had was learning how to use the brakes in the wet, as most people know, I use the brakes very little.

The absolutely best advice for wet, or otherwise slippery, conditions, stay off them brakes!

Bill

Quote from wjfyfe

The absolutely best advice for wet, or otherwise slippery, conditions, stay off them brakes!
Bill

Learn how to use them when the pavement is wet is the best advice.

Quote from FunCycle

Learn how to use them when the pavement is wet is the best advice.

OK, I can go with that for general driving in the wet, but once the vehicle "starts to go" usually any brakes will just make the matters worse, just let the vehicle slow down naturally.............

Bill

Quote from edwardaneal

The few times I have driven in the rain I havent had any problems or noticed any more tendency to hydroplane than the car I drove before switching to the slingshot. Admittedly we dont tend to get as much rain as most, but I have driven in a pretty good downpour on the Freeway and it drove just fine - - Having said this I do run an all season tire on the rear and soon will have the same on the front

Here's a quote from Discount Tire website regarding tire performance:

"Summer tires generally perform better than both winter and all-season tires in wet and dry conditions. In fact, summer tires generally outperform winter and all-season tires in all conditions except winter. Summer tires should not be used for winter driving conditions."