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What is the Max power that can be made N/A?????
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Prob 180 to the tire. That is my guess that is a 30hp gain over stock
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I'd check with Dave from DDM as they have done some dyno runs with new cams. I'm not sure if it was on a non power additive engine or not. I'd say you might be able to see 200 rwhp max as N/A, but it would require either cams and/or head work (plus the usual header, exhaust, CAI ecu reflash etc) to get there.
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200 is realllllllly reaching... you have to remember it has 174hp at the back of the engine. It has 150 at the tire. So your wanting 25% more power than stock if you want 200hp. So I'm not sure what can be accomplished.
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I would be very cautious of "advertised numbers" from a dyno. I'd have to see what kind of reading the dyno was giving a completely stock unit on the same day within minutes of the same time to give much credit. jes my .o2
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Rabtech,
NEW! StreetRace Billet Intake Manifold from Hahn RaceCraft!
Bill Hahn made 184 hp with just his intake, cold air kit and and exhaust, no headers or tune.........however i have yet to see this combo with the headers and tune, dynoed.....i bet it would be close with just the headers as those might make another 10-15 hp in that combo........unless some new products have luanched recently....
We are supposed to put mine on the dyno if I ever get back up to DDM. The only bolt-on that I do not have is the ported throttle body that RRR offered at one time, I am still looking for one.
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There was a build thread on TDS of a local rider @sopranosfan (not in this forum) he had everything you could do done to it, it was dynoed at a little over ~200 RHP.
They had gone beyond the usual mods of intake,exhaust and tune, since he is a muscle car race enthusiast he knew some people that helped him with it, he was disappointed at how little gain there was given how much they changed and then switched to an Alpha turbo.
His advice to me was that if you modify an NA to improve regular driving do not dyno it at the end otherwise you will regret the money you spent.
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There was a build thread on TDS of a local rider @sopranosfan (not in this forum) he had everything you could do done to it, it was dynoed at a little over ~200 RHP.
They had gone beyond the usual mods of intake,exhaust and tune, since he is a muscle car race enthusiast he knew some people that helped him with it, he was disappointed at how little gain there was given how much they changed and then switched to an Alpha turbo.
His advice to me was that if you modify an NA to improve regular driving do not dyno it at the end otherwise you will regret the money you spent.
Thanks man......yeah i figured a little over 200-210rwhp, but hey that's a big 45-60rwhp jjump for a 1700lb vechilce.....
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but the problem was that he spent the same amount a turbo would cost to get the 200+, he had the ported throttle body as well as some cams and some other custom modifications to get a meager increase compared to getting a turbo.
As I said you can look up the thread on TDS assuming you can navigate all the chinese posts.
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I,m with Dave and Rabtech on this one, Dave has stated MANY TIMES HERE AND ON T.D.S. when it comes to N/A, AS HE AND BOB HAVE SPENT MANY HOURS ON THE DYNO WITH EVERY COMBINATION OF MODS, That the only noticeable gain comes from a cat delete pipe and a performance exhaust, then a tune form Bob, this will net a reasonable gain for a N/A but hes not talking anywhere near 200 but maybe 185. After that with all Bobs capabilities and Daves, they cannot obtain any further noticeable increase in HP AS THE FACTORY EXHAUST AND INTAKES ARE MORE THAN ADEQUATE AT INJESTING AND EXHAUSTING ALL THE GASES THAT CAN BE CREATED , N/A !
As far as Cold air intakes , headers, and even with bob retuning to accommodate them, they all are great for increasing ego with all that bling under the hood but that's about it . THE BIGGEST INCREASE COMES FROM DELETING THOSE CATS AND A TUNE and after that, until you start sucking and blowing more gases with forced induction , most everything else is just bling . I,m not saying its wasted money , not at all , nothing is more rewarding than looking under your hood , even if it is N/A, and seeing a cool header, sharp looking C.A.I and maybe some billet mods and/ or colored coolant hoses , maybe a brightly colored coil cover, all this can be done for under a grand and makes for an awesome looking engine bay ! -
I,m with Dave and Rabtech on this one, Dave has stated MANY TIMES HERE AND ON T.D.S. when it comes to N/A, AS HE AND BOB HAVE SPENT MANY HOURS ON THE DYNO WITH EVERY COMBINATION OF MODS, That the only noticeable gain comes from a cat delete pipe and a performance exhaust, then a tune form Bob, this will net a reasonable gain for a N/A but hes not talking anywhere near 200 but maybe 185. After that with all Bobs capabilities and Daves, they cannot obtain any further noticeable increase in HP AS THE FACTORY EXHAUST AND INTAKES ARE MORE THAN ADEQUATE AT INJESTING AND EXHAUSTING ALL THE GASES THAT CAN BE CREATED , N/A !
As far as Cold air intakes , headers, and even with bob retuning to accommodate them, they all are great for increasing ego with all that bling under the hood but that's about it . THE BIGGEST INCREASE COMES FROM DELETING THOSE CATS AND A TUNE and after that, until you start sucking and blowing more gases with forced induction , most everything else is just bling . I,m not saying its wasted money , not at all , nothing is more rewarding than looking under your hood , even if it is N/A, and seeing a cool header, sharp looking C.A.I and maybe some billet mods and/ or colored coolant hoses , maybe a brightly colored coil cover, all this can be done for under a grand and makes for an awesome looking engine bay !What about hahn's new intake manaifold i posted.....I think that's the difference.....because before 185rwhp....is the most i have seen....
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I think that part of this issue is that a pure stock Sling will NOT dyno at 173 which is probably an "optimal" GM number. If you look at mod gains as a percent improvement then they are somewhat reasonable.
One other opinion worth stating is that just deleting the cat or any exhaust improvement won't be efficient without improving inbound airflow. The stock exhaust with cat(s) coupled with a the stock, flexible, collapsing intake hose is a lousy combo and there are reasonable gains to be had with inexpensive headers and CAI.
An unboosted Sling with just CAI, headers and a Bob tune will give you a seat of the pants performance improvement as well as smoother response while being MUCH easier on the engine than boosting with improved, rather than reduced reliability. -
What about hahn's new intake manaifold i posted.....I think that's the difference.....because before 185rwhp....is the most i have seen....
Just as they are telling you the cat delete with the CAI gave me 4 more MPG and a lot of seat of the pants HP. Probably the most noticable of any of the other improvements. The Hahn intake gave me some more power and moved the power band all the way up to the red line, where before it was around 32-3400 to around 5600 RPM's
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185 power from the rear from all the bolt ons is not too bad. I don’t know why most people here wants to achieve 200+ hp, while staying NA.
Bottom line, you want extra power, go get supercharge or turbo. That’ll guarantee the extra power you need, but reliability will be out of the question, well for turbochargers that is..
Anyway, once i finish my build, i’ll post a dyno sheet. I’m curious to see myself what the actual gains are. If i get to 185, i’ll be a happy camper, if not, then that’s ok too...
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185 power from the rear from all the bolt ons is not too bad. I don’t know why most people here wants to achieve 200+ hp, while staying NA.
Bottom line, you want extra power, go get supercharge or turbo. That’ll guarantee the extra power you need, but reliability will be out of the question, well for turbochargers that is..
Anyway, once i finish my build, i’ll post a dyno sheet. I’m curious to see myself what the actual gains are. If i get to 185, i’ll be a happy camper, if not, then that’s ok too...
I have to disagree that 200 rwh via turbo is unreliable. You can push that number up to 275 without running into any potential issues (and others will say slightly over 300 is still safe) I fully agree with that, but I'm not going to put that in writing as my recommendation. As with all things in life, your results may vary
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let’s be honest here..
those who decided to get turbo, were you satisfied with the first power it gave you?
No, cuz you want more and more horsepower, for god sake, you spent all those money, might as well get your money worth, so you tweak some more.
Next thing you know, you’re at 275, then 300, 350, 400, and so on..
Before you know it, you’ll be replacing some more parts to “handle” this much power.
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let’s be honest here..
those who decided to get turbo, were you satisfied with the first power it gave you?
No, cuz you want more and more horsepower, for god sake, you spent all those money, might as well get your money worth, so you tweak some more.
Next thing you know, you’re at 275, then 300, 350, 400, and so on..
Before you know it, you’ll be replacing some more parts to “handle” this much power.
And?????????????????????
Is there a problem with that????????????????
