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    • KayTwo wrote:

      That was kind of my point on @'lrobbi''s other post. Whomever is making the actual product and doing the marketing is more of the problem child.

      I kinda took it that way .... after reading the exchange and stepping back a bit it may be more of a heads up from the distributer ... like ..... hey, someone we already work with is going to produce a knockoff of your product so we are giving you first shot at it or we don't have a choice but carry theirs .... my first post was directed at the actual manufacturer, still think that is who should be outed ....

      ... ninja-squared

      .
      :REDSS: The ghost of SLingshot past ......
    • MiM wrote:

      I'm also thinking it wasn't the main guy from SM.C doing the texting through Instagram... Just my 2 cents...

      And because of that, maybe not the most professional guy... Also the channel of communication allows it to be informal and misinterpreted... Damn kids! You know what I mean?
      Wouldn't be the first time Slingmods has had a hiccup in public comms or PR, or even general attitude in their personal comms. So hard to find good help... LOL
      :BLUESS:
    • There is two sides to the transactions. How a vendor or retailer deals with end users (consumers) and how they deal with or work with vendors that supply the products. let's say you are making a product that cost you X and you sell direct for Y% profit. Your product is liked and is a good idea so retailer Z shows interest in selling your product but wants you to sell it to them at a price point too low for both parties to make a profit. Someone must give in, a deal made to break from a standard profit on both sides or just walk away. Now if another retailer approaches the vendor and offers a better deal in the form of both making an decent profit the vendor can do what they want. The original retailer has the option of either trying to go back and rework the deal or just cut them out and do it themselves if they have been approached by someone else willing to do the product for the margins wanted. This could either be a third party or a solicited third party to do it for them. In the end a retailer wants to stay relavent and competitive as long as no laws are being broken. Should or shouldn't they really isn't a question unfortunately. Don't think for a second willing companies can't be found to make this happen if you have the funds upfront to have them maded. Just take a moment and Google SlingShot accessories on Alibaba or Alibaba Express. The first we're Alpha products. More are to follow if this thing keeps growing. Funny part is that these same companies will go direct in the US market and cut out even the retailer. I'm always keeping an eye on this market. Not an easy thing to do. The only control a small business has is to stay creative with new products and build a strong customer base to help you build your product image. Word of mouth and social media are powerful tools and help to place the small guy more in the driver's seat when dealing with possible expansion to tiered distribution.
    • mytoy wrote:

      So I developed my own designs and made changes to existing items (made them different and better IMO) so should I stop? :(

      @mytoy I truly don't mean this as a dig, so please don't take it that way. The "changes to existing items" are just covers that bolt over "nuts" and reservoir covers. While they look amazing, it's not like you stole or ripped off somebody's intellectual property. You didn't steal somebody's new innovative idea that didn't have the ability to mass produce. You simply made another version of something that already exists in many forms. You can find covers galore on the interwebs. The clutch and brake resevoir covers you have had prototyped are extremely similar to pics I posted from etsy.com... they are literally a dime a dozen. What you really did, was save us time, energy and money having to order and test fit many to find the one we needed and just custom made them to fit our application.

      I don't know if I'm explaining myself clearly or not, but what you are doing is just different.
    • MiM wrote:

      Joker wrote:

      MiM wrote:

      Joker wrote:

      Is this about Marks fenders? With the vendors being Slingmods(y) and Slingshot Only(x)?
      Hmm... Hadn't considered that... Nice SHOT... :whistling:
      I probably shouldn't have written that as a question.
      Then I guess 2 wrongs make a right... Didn't know about Mark and SM.C and SSO...
      But I think I correctly guessed lrobbi and Kev/SSO...
      I love it when people speak in GEEK coDE. Makes me feel all giddy... or not. :D ?( ?( :D
      Shoot low sheriff, their riding Shetlands.
    • Bigdog wrote:

      If you ban the questionsble vendor... then what are you suggesting a boycottby forum members?

      Second, anything you put up on the net without legal protections in place ... was just thrown up for grabs to the first person that gets the patent. That said, a 20 million dollar company has much deeper pockets than Joe blow ... good luck fighting them.

      More and more slingshots are going to be sold in the coming years. Could be more forums piping up too.

      The patent process can take years.

      I want you to seriously consider what I’m about to say.

      For the past 50-60 years U. S. Companies have been using China to make their products cheaper. But China has literally stolen every product and invention. EVERY product and invention they got paid to make. That means all the billions of research dollars and time involved to develope the product were wasted. the Chinese stole them for free and made huge profits. This was all due to American company’s practicing corporate greed. Forgetting about employees and only worrying about their bottom line.

      Today the person that can make the product first and get it out there fastest has the biggest profit potential until the rest of the world catches up to them with their stolen copy of it.

      It’s a cruel world.
      What the hell is going on? Someone please message me with the details, I think I've almost got this decoded? I was worried my trailer towing thread was going to be deleted! I thought I logged into the Twilight Zone when I finally remembered my password. Then I began having flashbacks to my algebra trig class from high school ....X,Y.....oh my! 8|

      This thread reminded me of the other forum, where I actually was banned for posting about my invention......they finally let me back on.... :S This has been an interesting read, thanks for the heads-up @jorgebri60. I've always been worried about a company stealing our Wycked Hitch design, so that's why I went with a Provisional Patent. The process took 2 years (give or take) to get the Utility Patent #9963005, which was issued this month. Cost was under $10,000 total. Not too bad considering I started out as a "hobby business." Actually, if you ask my wife, I'm still a hobby business :whistling: .

      I was fortunate enough to find a Patent Agent who was willing to help me out. His name is Ben, he's the owner of Williams Intellectual Property. Williams Intellectual Property The guy is a savant! Ben tells me that there are funds available to small businesses to fight patent infringement, as well as firms that will handle claims pro bono or as a percentage if they win, which is reassuring.

      As a small family businessman, I've had an amazing amount of help and support over the past 3 years. Our beta testor's are all phenomenal people, and very loyal. They are a big part of our Wycked Hitch family, we definitely would not be where we are without their support! The team at Magic Metals (who laser cut our components) took my original drawings and prototype'd them into Solid Works. They even gave me the drawings for the patent over a handshake, asking me to keep my business with them for at least 2 years......Our powder coater, Penny @ Finishline, treats us like family also. She is glad to help with small custom pieces or will knock out 20 hitches at a time. It's really humbling that big businesses are willing to help out the small guys these days!

      My philosophy is to treat every customer like family. It's not always easy, but I think we've done well. I think our customers definitely have our back. I've had pictures sent to me from events showing some custom hitches that had us wondering if we were being knocked-off? As far as I know, no one has stolen the idea with the goal of making money off of it. I've had 2 welders ask me if I'd sell them the components for a hitch, which I gladly did once they guaranteed me they would not steel the design and sell them to all their SS buddies on this forum....... :thumbsup: .

      We had an opportunity to have the hitch manufactured and packaged in China, but just didn't make sense, our product liability insurance would have tripled! <X Actually, I'm waiting for the $20 million company to offer to license the patent out so we can go Wycked crazy on the new 2019 Chevy/GMC's......(Thought about Dodges and Fords, but we want to give the hitch a real test! :evil:
    • Ruptured Duck wrote:

      There is two sides to the transactions. How a vendor or retailer deals with end users (consumers) and how they deal with or work with vendors that supply the products. let's say you are making a product that cost you X and you sell direct for Y% profit. Your product is liked and is a good idea so retailer Z shows interest in selling your product but wants you to sell it to them at a price point too low for both parties to make a profit. Someone must give in, a deal made to break from a standard profit on both sides or just walk away. Now if another retailer approaches the vendor and offers a better deal in the form of both making an decent profit the vendor can do what they want. The original retailer has the option of either trying to go back and rework the deal or just cut them out and do it themselves if they have been approached by someone else willing to do the product for the margins wanted. This could either be a third party or a solicited third party to do it for them. In the end a retailer wants to stay relavent and competitive as long as no laws are being broken. Should or shouldn't they really isn't a question unfortunately. Don't think for a second willing companies can't be found to make this happen if you have the funds upfront to have them maded. Just take a moment and Google SlingShot accessories on Alibaba or Alibaba Express. The first we're Alpha products. More are to follow if this thing keeps growing. Funny part is that these same companies will go direct in the US market and cut out even the retailer. I'm always keeping an eye on this market. Not an easy thing to do. The only control a small business has is to stay creative with new products and build a strong customer base to help you build your product image. Word of mouth and social media are powerful tools and help to place the small guy more in the driver's seat when dealing with possible expansion to tiered distribution.
      You nailed it @Ruptured Duck! Been trying to figure out where to go with the business......We're actually selling direct to dealerships now. Both Slingshot Only and Slingmods sell our hitches, and have been great companies to work with. We've done everything through email and phone calls, no contracts. We've had discussions about their price points, me undercutting them, etc. I've learned a lot, but have waaaaay more to learn! It's not easy going from shop teacher to businessman, especially with all the brain injuries :S ...... Our distributors do pretty well I think, especially since I drop ship everything for them so they don't have to handle or stock inventory.

      We're actually to the point where we could probably do just fine selling direct through our website, but I don't think we'd be the #1 hitch without their support, and I am appreciative of it. Looking forward to working with Slingshot Only in Maggie Valley. Hope to see you all there! :thumbup:
    • jorgebri60 wrote:

      funinthesun wrote:

      Just my 2 cents is all the items that are being sold by forum vendors, I'd be surprised if more than 10% of them have a pattern for protection on their items. Unless they are knowledgeable in applying for a pattern (after fully researching that there are none already issued), it probably won't be issued. There are plenty of pattern attorneys out there and they're not cheap. To have one of them do the leg work and filings for each part would be a massive expense that not too many start-up companies could afford. That being said, to copy the product and design, while not being illegal, is not the way to establish a new business's reputation for fair dealings.

      To not know all the details, it's hard casting a vote

      I know that @RichArlt went to great lengths to secure a patent before going to market with his Wycked Hitch system.
      FYI, My Patent Agent allowed me to pay as we went through the Provisional & Utility Patent process. $600 here, $1200 there......it was actually quite affordable. He did the patent search for a small fee, and the Provisional $ investment transferred to the Utility Patent. His name is Ben Williams, Williams Intellectual Property. Williams Intellectual Property He is not a patent attorney, he's better! Best business move I could have made!
    • TheRock wrote:

      mytoy wrote:

      So I developed my own designs and made changes to existing items (made them different and better IMO) so should I stop? :(
      @mytoy I truly don't mean this as a dig, so please don't take it that way. The "changes to existing items" are just covers that bolt over "nuts" and reservoir covers. While they look amazing, it's not like you stole or ripped off somebody's intellectual property. You didn't steal somebody's new innovative idea that didn't have the ability to mass produce. You simply made another version of something that already exists in many forms. You can find covers galore on the interwebs. The clutch and brake resevoir covers you have had prototyped are extremely similar to pics I posted from etsy.com... they are literally a dime a dozen. What you really did, was save us time, energy and money having to order and test fit many to find the one we needed and just custom made them to fit our application.

      I don't know if I'm explaining myself clearly or not, but what you are doing is just different.
      Copyright law allows for existing product upgrades/changes/improvements made by someone other than the existing patent holder/inventor...providing they are not so similar as to cause patent infringement issues.
    • Bigdog wrote:

      TheRock wrote:

      mytoy wrote:

      So I developed my own designs and made changes to existing items (made them different and better IMO) so should I stop? :(
      @mytoy I truly don't mean this as a dig, so please don't take it that way. The "changes to existing items" are just covers that bolt over "nuts" and reservoir covers. While they look amazing, it's not like you stole or ripped off somebody's intellectual property. You didn't steal somebody's new innovative idea that didn't have the ability to mass produce. You simply made another version of something that already exists in many forms. You can find covers galore on the interwebs. The clutch and brake resevoir covers you have had prototyped are extremely similar to pics I posted from etsy.com... they are literally a dime a dozen. What you really did, was save us time, energy and money having to order and test fit many to find the one we needed and just custom made them to fit our application.
      I don't know if I'm explaining myself clearly or not, but what you are doing is just different.
      Copyright law allows for existing product upgrades/changes/improvements made by someone other than the existing patent holder/inventor...providing they are not so similar as to cause patent infringement issues.
      Patent laws give rights to the applicant. These cover either design or utility. Copyright is not related. Just upgrading, changing, or improving will not guarante anything. You have to show a new approach or design that doesn't utilize any claims made in the original patent. That is the supper simple explanation. It's much more complicated than noted in this thread.
    • Jesus Christ I need to get another Sling to get back in the loop ?( ...Is someone being a Liberal Baby? OOPS did I say that out loud??? :whistling: :00008084:

      From what I can gather, keep the ideas, low cost designs flowing...Anyone bitching- F*ck EM!!!

      Keep doing what you boys are doing!!
      I Have No more toys, just memories.... :/
    • Ruptured Duck wrote:

      Bigdog wrote:

      TheRock wrote:

      mytoy wrote:

      So I developed my own designs and made changes to existing items (made them different and better IMO) so should I stop? :(
      @mytoy I truly don't mean this as a dig, so please don't take it that way. The "changes to existing items" are just covers that bolt over "nuts" and reservoir covers. While they look amazing, it's not like you stole or ripped off somebody's intellectual property. You didn't steal somebody's new innovative idea that didn't have the ability to mass produce. You simply made another version of something that already exists in many forms. You can find covers galore on the interwebs. The clutch and brake resevoir covers you have had prototyped are extremely similar to pics I posted from etsy.com... they are literally a dime a dozen. What you really did, was save us time, energy and money having to order and test fit many to find the one we needed and just custom made them to fit our application.I don't know if I'm explaining myself clearly or not, but what you are doing is just different.
      Copyright law allows for existing product upgrades/changes/improvements made by someone other than the existing patent holder/inventor...providing they are not so similar as to cause patent infringement issues.
      Patent laws give rights to the applicant. These cover either design or utility. Copyright is not related. Just upgrading, changing, or improving will not guarante anything. You have to show a new approach or design that doesn't utilize any claims made in the original patent. That is the supper simple explanation. It's much more complicated than noted in this thread.
      correct . I miss typed my patent/copyright words.

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