School Shootings

As a society, we are fast approaching an inflection point where we are going to have to admit to a hard honest truth.

We have too many guns in private hands and we will need to find solutions to addressing the all to common frequency of mass shootings in America.

I am a registered, responsible gun owner and want the opportunity to enjoy this sport.

But I can't be comfortable with seeing more innocent people slaughtered.

Intelligence, reasonableness, and flexibility will be needed if we are truely interested in changing this predominantly American phenomenon.

Interesting read:

how-to-reduce-shootings.html

Quote from LargeCar

I am just to heartbroken to respond much here on this. We just need to get God back in schools, and homes.

LC

Exactly! @Nemesis1701, you, and I are on the same page...

Now it all obviously doesn't have to be the same faith, but there has to be some foundation and structure in homes.

The worst religion right now is social media (and just media in general)...

It's bad when events like this happen and the first thought is, "Yep, it happened again..." commonplace. Just sad.

Quote from Bill from Hahn RaceCraft

The longer we do nothing, the longer we'll have to endure it all, and the worse it will get.

It's time to come together as a people and decide what future we wish for our fine nation.
It's time to stop allowing ourselves to be manipulated.
It's time to admit that mistakes have been made, by many, in many areas.

It's time to DO something. Anything.

Most importantly...anything but endlessly recycle the same vitriol and bullshit that's been passing for "dialogue" for some years now. I wish I would have been delighted to see something actually new in this thread. I can't say as I'm surprised that I was disappointed.

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Problem is as many have pointed out is that it's not just one thing, but multiple things. Inaction and political squabaling is the problem... as I see it.

I understand the question @Bill Martin, but probably not a good idea to share it on public forum...

We do have a protocol that is decided on by the district and actually run a simulation at the beginning of the year with our district police department.

However, kids are also trained to exit when the fire alarm is pulled and to do so immediately. So this kid is sick... May he have the punishment that is appropriate. And his parents and family... Well, may God help them.

alll the schools do is a lock down so your kids are just sitting there like fucking sitting ducks just waiting to either be shot or hit by a stray bullet. they announce some stupid codeword that alerts the teachers that there is an active shooter. they do drills for it all the time, but for some reason they don't teach them how to stop bullets. just sit under ur desk and wait to get shot.shits been goin on foreever i mean people really haven't forgot about columbine have you . two 16 year olds wiping out walmart for a shit load of ammo and then going on a shooting spree. fun fact though which i actually read this morning. this is one of the topics america actually leads the world in. not healthcare or stuff like that but were first up there with school shootings and massacres. people don't want gun control, i get it but things will only get worst. it just takes for something like this to touch home for some people to change their mind. I'm from Massachusetts we have some of the strictest gun laws in the states and when tragedies like this happen I sure am glad to know our state gun laws are working for us.and I'm not saying a change to the law will do anything because it probably won't but USA is goin to have to start thinking about putting armed guards at every school which is almost as ridiculous as thinking the gun laws will actually change. it just aint gonna happen

Quote from MiM

I understand the question @Bill Martin, but probably not a good idea to share it on public forum...

We do have a protocol that is decided on by the district and actually run a simulation at the beginning of the year with our district police department.

However, kids are also trained to exit when the fire alarm is pulled and to do so immediately. So this kid is sick... May he have the punishment that is appropriate. And his parents and family... Well, may God help them.

Heather and I talked about this last night. That single act of pulling the firearm basically made this event unable to be defended against. We are trained to do only one thing when the alarm goes off, and he took lethal advantage of that.

Just gonna leave this here.

6 Reasons Your Right-Wing Friend Isn’t Budging On Gun Control

For some answers, we need to look at Switzerland. Gun ownership is basically mandatory. They have a culture where the kids are all raised in gun clubs, taught gun safety & responsibility. Hunting is huge. Military service is MANDATORY.

http://world.time.com/2012/12/…a-gun-culture-that-works/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Switzerland

Switzerland has had ONE “mass shooting” in recent history & it sure wasn’t a school.

Something to ponder...

I was at my local Ford dealership yesterday as the local police department shot a man in the parking lot 4 times. When I heard the shots I knew they were close and I looked at the parts dealer and he looked at me we both just stood there stunned. It wasn't till I saw people in the building running for the exits I said to him should we run or what but we both stood there and just kept looking for parts. My problem with my reaction yesterday in my situation is I wasn't scared or had that got to run feeling. It was like I was numb to the gun fire and it was normal. I've been around guns my whole life I hear gunshots everyday. I live in a unincorporated part of town. I come home later that day to this on the news and questions from my kids. And my kids go into what there taught for there code red at school and where there supposed to hide. I don't know what to say about anything. I mean I don't know what the answer is. I just try to teach my kids right and wrong and sometimes other kids are mean. And you don't always come in first place. Sometimes life hands you a shitty situation. Sometimes you don't get picked for a team you want to play on. But you keep your head up and solider on and work for what you want and roll with the rewards and punches life throws at you. We have a lot of what would be described as millennials that work for me and my wife and it drives my wife crazy with how many times she hears a day that's not fair, why do they get to do that and I don't. Thats not fair, that's not fair, that's not fair, all day. I don't have any gun control answers for you all. I live in Indiana and across the border in Illinois they have some very strick gun laws. So what do the criminals do they come here to Indiana to get there guns to commit crimes do I blame Indiana no. Do I blame Illinois for pushing the criminals over here to a state where guns laws are a more lacks no. Sorry for the rant I could go all day. Why don't we stand for the pledge of allegiance anymore why can't we talk about religion anymore. Is that an underlying issue of why people seem to be so disgruntled. Don't know the answers. Just has been a weird couple of days and really makes me think about what I'm doing now with my kids is right and I pray that when there older and making decisions they look back and say wow dad was a real jag off and tough on us but I get it now and can function in society with confidence. Rant over I love all of my SS family and pray for our nation.

Quote from Tripod

For some answers, we need to look at Switzerland. Gun ownership is basically mandatory. They have a culture where the kids are all raised in gun clubs, taught gun safety & responsibility. Hunting is huge. Military service is MANDATORY.

http://world.time.com/2012/12/…a-gun-culture-that-works/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Switzerland

Switzerland has had ONE “mass shooting” in recent history & it sure wasn’t a school.

Something to ponder...

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The thing is... what does all that teach kids? Discipline and provides structure. Something most kids don't have these days.

Quote from Bill Martin

I’m sorry but all I hear is attacking the AR 15 and the need to ban it. I like to shoot guns but am by no means an expert. It would appear to me ( @KayTwo you could give me a good answer here) that a person with 2 automatic pistols with 16 round clips with multiple backup clips would be just as lethal as they would with an AR 15 with multiple clips - especially in close quarters like this shooting was.

You are correct, sir. I can attest that with just a little practice, you can send fairly accurate lead downrange at high rate of speed with decent accuracy. Without getting into lethality of ballistics, you could do just as much damage with a Glock with multiple hi-cap mags. It's not about the weapon or ammo, it's about the mindset and intent.

I went back and forth on posting or not...I tend not to get myself mixed up in these conversations...ultimately because everything becomes about rights, about what needs to be done to fix the issue from an outside perspective, and ultimately people getting ugly with each other, or hihgly politicized. I'm also a fair bit younger than most of the people here and this plays in to my response in a strange way.

How does that factor in to my response you ask? Because my brother and I went to school with Eric Harris...for those that don't remember that name...he was one of the 2 shooters in the Columbine shooting here in CO. We lived on the same Air Force Base, and even though he was younger than us, the school where we went was smaller than most (graduating classes under 50), so everyone knew everyone. His dad was an Air Force Officer, and they really had it good by all standards. He has a really good home life.

With that being said...I don't know what changed when they left Michigan to Colorado. I don't know if he got mixed up with the wrong people or what the case is. I don't know if his home life changed. I don't know if the bigger schools in the Denver area were too overwhelming for someone that went to school in an area that had a total of 300 kids in school not 300 in a graduation class. All I know is that when I heard the name of the shooters, Eric's name came up and I was shocked.

Now to respond to what @Bill Martin asked...what is wrong with kids today. Well...I think that is a mixed bag. I went back to the same high school I graduated from to become a basketball coach for a few years. This was only 5 years after I had graduated from there. And things were vastly different from when I was in high school. Freshmen boys...yes boys... coming up to me saying they had to quit the team because they got their girlfriend pregnant. I didn't even think about hooking up when I was that young.

My parents instilled in me 2 big things...fear and success. FEAR that if I screwed up my future SUCCESS, that life would get a hell of a lot harder. FEAR that there were consequences not only by them...not only by God...but by life in general. SUCCESS should be pursued while you are young so you can enjoy life as you get older. Kids don't get that level of support these days. We have a generation of kids raising kids. Trying to be best friends to their children. They have no discipline, no direction, no faith, and no role models.

I also think that a big part of the issue is 2 fold...social media and the media. You can ask a kid "What do you want to be when you get older?" And the answer will probably be something like "I want to be famous". While a nice goal in life, they don't care how they get that fame. And worse...the media continues to glorify those that get the fame through despicable means. Social media has given everyone the avenue to get their 15 minutes of fame...either through YouTube stunts, FB and Instagram influencing, to the shock and awe of something awful on other things like Tumblr and Reddit. The list goes on and on. I really think that if the media would stop providing names of these sickos that do these demented acts, there would be less people getting "famous" or at least less trying to attain that goal since the dumb shit they do would not be acknowledged...let alone glamorized for News outlets to get higher ratings and a higher revenue stream by advertisers.
I have rambled on way too much here...I'm sorry for that. I have a lot of other avenues I wanted to take this. But I'll sum it up:
1. Parents need to start taking a more active role in their kids lives
2. I do think that the lack of religion is part of the problem. But a lack in religion doesn't make anyone a bad person.
3. Gun control is not the issue. Lack of enforcement of the current laws in place is a bigger issue.
4. Media needs to stop making idiots famous.
5. Today's social climate makes it easy to hate everyone that has a difference of opinion from your own...and events like this seem to bring that out more and more.
Abraham Lincoln said it best: "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
The more we fight amongst ourselves...the less we start looking for a fix for the problem.

I guess that summary wasn't as small as I was hoping for...once again. I apologize for rambling. Somewhere in all that...there is bits and pieces of coherent information. I am just distraught that 17 kids are killed by some asshole. Those 17 kids had a future...the potential of being the one to cure cancer, to do good things for others, to be better human beings than any of us...and now...no one will ever know what they could have been.

Quote from Bill Martin

@MiM - just out of curiosity what kind of protocol do you guys have in place at your school for one of these crazy attacks. You wanna think grade schoolers are safe but after Sandy Hook nobody is!!

PS - Not askin cause I wanna throw rocks at ya - I’m sure the school board dictates what ya have to do

Quote from Bill Martin

I’m sorry but all I hear is attacking the AR 15 and the need to ban it. I like to shoot guns but am by no means an expert. It would appear to me ( @KayTwo you could give me a good answer here) that a person with 2 automatic pistols with 16 round clips with multiple backup clips would be just as lethal as they would with an AR 15 with multiple clips - especially in close quarters like this shooting was. If anyone can tell me what law we could pass short of repealing the 2nd Amendment that could stop this bloodshed I am certainly willing to listen. I may be wrong but I cannot recall where one of these maniac mass murders broke the law obtaining their firearm of which there are plenty on the books already. This is one of the most perplexing problems we face IMO.

We have one deputy at each school

Quote from Br4hm4

I have rambled on way too much here...I'm sorry for that. I have a lot of other avenues I wanted to take this. But I'll sum it up:
1. Parents need to start taking a more active role in their kids lives
2. I do think that the lack of religion is part of the problem. But a lack in religion doesn't make anyone a bad person.
3. Gun control is not the issue. Lack of enforcement of the current laws in place is a bigger issue.
4. Media needs to stop making idiots famous.
5. Today's social climate makes it easy to hate everyone that has a difference of opinion from your own...and events like this seem to bring that out more and more.
Abraham Lincoln said it best: "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
The more we fight amongst ourselves...the less we start looking for a fix for the problem.

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Quote from Bill Martin

I’m sorry but all I hear is attacking the AR 15 and the need to ban it. I like to shoot guns but am by no means an expert. It would appear to me ( @KayTwo you could give me a good answer here) that a person with 2 automatic pistols with 16 round clips with multiple backup clips would be just as lethal as they would with an AR 15 with multiple clips - especially in close quarters like this shooting was. If anyone can tell me what law we could pass short of repealing the 2nd Amendment that could stop this bloodshed I am certainly willing to listen. I may be wrong but I cannot recall where one of these maniac mass murders broke the law obtaining their firearm of which there are plenty on the books already. This is one of the most perplexing problems we face IMO.

@Bill Martin just remember it only takes something like 2.3 seconds to change a mag. Whether it is a 3 round or a 30 round. I have one rifle that has a 3 round mag but I have 7 mags for it. When I ordered the extras the sales person asked me why, I told her what I just said and the fools making the laws and wanting gun control fail to understand that.

I'm with you @Br4hm4... And @Orangeman...

Glad so many are better with words than me... Or is it I?

OK people I am done with this one and do not even want to even read anymore about it.

I don't know why they don't have cops posted at more schools. At the schools I deliver to in the ruffer areas of my county they have metal detectors and police in the entraces to the schools. I would not be apposed to that in my kids school. Now some would say then we loose freedoms and the crazies win. But what is the alternative and what is the consequences when we don't take precautions.