Conservative Politics & Daily Events Discussion

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship for illegal immigrants

does anyone really think that this shouldn't happen?

should the child of a foreign national be granted citizenship just because mommy managed to sneak across the border before giving birth? or because mommy could afford to fly here from China to give birth?
shouldn't at least one parent be required to be a legal resident before citizenship is granted to their child?

and yes, before you say it - - I couldn't stay away

Quote from EjFord

Both need to move to the 'center' to really make this country great.

I agree with you jungster

That one is easy and tough @edwardaneal. The easy: I don't think an illegal having a kid here should make that kid a citizen. Just like if a pregnant American citizen was on vacation anywhere in the world and gives birth outside the U.S., her baby should be American not a citizen of some other country.

Now, the tough: If a kid is brought here illegally or born here with illegal parents and grows up(15+ years) in America and really only knows America as their home(Dreamers), there should be a pathway to citizenship. No fault of their own they have no papers and aside from that sheet of paper they are no different from any other American child/person as they grew up here. Some may not even know they are illegal or an anchor baby. It is tough for me to argue they should be kicked out to a country they don't know and have never been to.

Quote from WOLF

That one is easy and tough @edwardaneal. The easy: I don't think an illegal having a kid here should make that kid a citizen. Just like if a pregnant American citizen was on vacation anywhere in the world and gives birth outside the U.S., her baby should be American not a citizen of some other country.

Now, the tough: If a kid is brought here illegally or born here with illegal parents and grows up(15+ years) in America and really only knows America as their home(Dreamers), there should be a pathway to citizenship. No fault of their own they have no papers and aside from that sheet of paper they are no different from any other American child/person as they grew up here. Some may not even know they are illegal or an anchor baby. It is tough for me to argue they should be kicked out to a country they don't know and have never been to.

I Agree that someone brought here as a kid who is 15 should be granted legal residency give them a green card and then let them work for citizenship like my wife did, but what do we do with the younger people, the kid who was brought here and is only 5? do we send them home? or perhaps we let them stay without the chance of ever earning citizenship? As a Libertarian I do believe these people should be treated with compassion, but I am not sure how we do it without encouraging people to come here illegally

I personally think that we grant citizenship far to easily in this country. In fact we are one of the easiest. There are countries out there that wont let anyone become a citizen, and others like Japan make it very hard. My wifes sister is married to a Japanese man and she does not have an easy path to citizenship - it can be done but it is very hard and even requires she be fluent in both reading and writing the language

In the end I truly believe the solution to our illegal immigration problem can be solved by making it as close to impossible as can be done for a non citizen to get a job. If people cant get work here unless they are legal then they won't come, or at least far fewer will come - - stop trying to punish good people that only want a better life - seriously who can blame them

Go after the employers - make the punishment so extreme that no one wants to hire some one who inst authorized to work legally - and make a program where non citizens are granted authorization for those jobs where they are needed

In my opinion an employer who knowingly hires people who are not authorized to work in this country should lose his ability to own a business. Pass that law and actually enforce it and illegal immigration will no longer be a problem

Quote from WOLF

That one is easy and tough @edwardaneal. The easy: I don't think an illegal having a kid here should make that kid a citizen. Just like if a pregnant American citizen was on vacation anywhere in the world and gives birth outside the U.S., her baby should be American not a citizen of some other country.

Now, the tough: If a kid is brought here illegally or born here with illegal parents and grows up(15+ years) in America and really only knows America as their home(Dreamers), there should be a pathway to citizenship. No fault of their own they have no papers and aside from that sheet of paper they are no different from any other American child/person as they grew up here. Some may not even know they are illegal or an anchor baby. It is tough for me to argue they should be kicked out to a country they don't know and have never been to.

WOW, I agree with you 100%, NEVER thought that would happen
BUT, the tough for you
IF the child was brought here illegally, by parents who came in the country illegally or stayed here illegally after their visa was expired, then that child and it's parent SHOULD be immediately returned to their country of origin. The child can not claim "not knowing" they are illegal if they have no US birth certificate. You know the parents had to tell the child at some time during their life as to why the child could not do something.
NOW, if the child was born in the US by illegal parents, the parents can be given a choice, go back to your original country taking the child with you voluntarily, while being able to apply for citizenship, or letting the child remain in the country with relatives, or go in the foster care system and the parents returned to their original country with a permanent ban on re-entry, never being able to apply for citizenship.
There should not be a avenue for a criminal to get special/lax consideration for KNOWINGLY breaking the law.
The birthright clause should only apply to bonafide legal citizens of the USA

People who want a better life for their family can not be blamed for walking through the door we have left open for them - if the shoe were on the other foot as they say and it were anyone of us on the other side of that door we would do the exact same thing.

Stop the job opportunities, punish the employers - - these are the Americans who are breaking the law and helping to hold that door open - - they are profiteering off the backs of good people, they are using them because they dont want to pay a fair wage and they dont want to be subject to all of the rules and costs that go with hiring Americans

the people trying to come here for a better life are not the bad guys - The people here who would hire them at below minimum wage so that they can make a larger profit - they are the ones who should be punished

The Republicans are the road block here - they will scream that it is anti business if we go after the employers and this is why illegal immigration always remains a problem - no one on either side wants to be the inhumane A$$ hole that goes after people who just want a better life and no one on the right wants to do anything that might be seen as anti business

It's not a "coming around" @Bill Martin. I have said from the very beginning I am in the middle and agree and disagree with both sides on different aspects of any given issue. I'm sure you noticed I don't argue against everything you guys say. Though admittedly, that's probably because of a 50/50 split between, agree and that is too crazy to argue.

If you recall, we agreed Welfare should be a short, finite term hand up and not a lifetime hand out. I think we also agreed that there should be more overwatch to further eliminate abuse of the welfare system so that there is more for those that really NEED it.

We agree on gun rights for the most part. I don't see a problem with universal background checks, because I don't see it as a stepping stone to taking our guns. I think that is our only difference on guns.

I don't think corporations should pay a larger or smaller percentage to Federal taxes than their employees. I would like to see a flat tax as it would end the main argument in class warfare. "Rich people and big corporations using big tax loops and paying less% than the little guy".

I know we disagree on how much pollution of the air and water is acceptable in the name of corporate profits and stock market share values, through de-regulation.

We agree on more than you know, but not because I haven't stated my views in the last few years. More so because of memories and the viewpoint applied to my words by the reader.

I like beer.

I know @Bill Martin, I too enjoy the back and forth. Helping you maintain those lawyer skills is also a reason I play in here. I need to keep your mind keen so you can Sling well into the future.

Single malt 18+, I like it smooth.

All the Fake News. I have a question why are the Rep party sends millions of $ to this networks (advertising)?
So maybe is not all faked news.

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Quote from WOLF

That one is easy and tough @edwardaneal. The easy: I don't think an illegal having a kid here should make that kid a citizen. Just like if a pregnant American citizen was on vacation anywhere in the world and gives birth outside the U.S., her baby should be American not a citizen of some other country.

Now, the tough: If a kid is brought here illegally or born here with illegal parents and grows up(15+ years) in America and really only knows America as their home(Dreamers), there should be a pathway to citizenship. No fault of their own they have no papers and aside from that sheet of paper they are no different from any other American child/person as they grew up here. Some may not even know they are illegal or an anchor baby. It is tough for me to argue they should be kicked out to a country they don't know and have never been to.

So using that logic, here's my story. I robbed banks 15 years ago and have kept the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Being rich is all I know. So I should be allowed to keep all the money and forgo serving prison time? What a country

Quote from funinthesun

So using that logic, here's my story. I robbed banks 15 years ago and have kept the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Being rich is all I know. So I should be allowed to keep all the money and forgo serving prison time? What a country

I have to point out the flaw in your logic.

By your logic, the story actually should be: the parents robbed banks 15 years ago and their kids got some benefit from the money, so now their kids should be serving prison time? What a country.

Quote from Mike in Victoria BC

I have to point out the flaw in your logic.
By your logic, the story actually should be: the parents robbed banks 15 years ago and their kids got some benefit from the money, so now their kids should be serving prison time? What a country.

lets have some fun with this - just because I can

forget the prison time lets talk about the ill gotten gain

Parents robbed banks 15 years ago, invested stolen money and died leaving great wealth to their children - - should the children get to keep that wealth?

In Canada, there a two main types: criminal inadmissibility and medical inadmissibility. Reasons outside of these fall into the “other” category.
Criminal Inadmissibility – Even minor or very old offenses are taken very seriously by Canadian border officials. This is true even if the offenses occurred in countries other than Canada. Having a criminal record is the most common reason for being denied entry into the country.
1. Past Criminal Conviction
You maybe denied entry to Canada if you have been convicted of a crime. This counts for both minor and serious crimes that are illegal in both Canada and the country where the crime was committed. Examples include drug possession, theft, reckless driving driving under the influence, assault, manslaughter and resisting arrest.
2. Involved in human rights violations
These include war crimes, crimes against humanity, or being in a senior position in a government that has been internationally sanctioned or is responsible for gross human rights violations.
3. Involved in organized crime
Proof of past or present involvement with a gang, mafia, terrorist group or other organized crime group is grounds for being denied entry to Canada
There are two ways you can overcome criminal inadmissibility to Canada. They are the Temporary Residency Permit (TRP) and criminal rehabilitation.
The Temporary Residency Permit is a type of visa that permits you to enter Canada on a temporary basis and is valid for up to three years. They can be obtained at the Canadian consulate or embassy and can take six to eight months to process. In some cases, an emergency TRP can be issued on the spot if you can persuade officials that urgent entry is required.
TRP applicants must complete a personality profile, personal account of the crime, and other paperwork that proves the criminal offense was an isolated event, that you are not a threat to the citizens of Canada and you are deserving of entry.
For criminal inadmissibility, a more long-term solution is Criminal Rehabilitation. You can qualify for this remedy five years after the offense and following satisfactory completion of the Criminal Rehabilitation Certificate program. Once you are certified, you can enter the country as many times as you would like without having to repeatedly apply for a TRP. Some offenses require 10 years to pass after serving your sentence before you can be considered for any form of admissibility including the TRP.
Medical Inadmissibility – Subsection 38(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA) covers inadmissibility based on health grounds. According to this subsection, a medical officer is tasked with assessing the permanent resident or foreign national’s health, taking into account any official medical documentation pertaining to the person.
4. Endangerment to Public Health or Safety
During the assessment, the officer will consider the communicability of any disease the person has as well as the potential impact of that disease on the health and safety of the Canadian public. For example, you may be denied entry if you have hepatitis, influenza, measles or other communicable disease. Non-communicable diseases such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder which may be associated with the risk of violent outbursts or irrational behavior are also grounds for medical inadmissibility.
5. Potential to Cause Excessive Demands on Health or Social Services
Medical inadmissibility includes an excessive demand component. A person can be denied admission if they are deemed to have a condition whose treatment could create a drain on the Canadian healthcare system. Spouses and common-law partners of Canadian sponsors are exempt from the excessive demand clause.
In some cases, your lawyer can help you apply for a TRP to have your medical inadmissibility excused or apply for humanitarian and compassionate discretion (H&C) which takes into account public policies and the interests of directly affected minor children.
Other Types of Inadmissibility
6. Financial Reasons
This results from a failure to prove your ability to support yourself and your family financially. If you cannot prove that you have a meaningful income from skilled work, entrepreneurship or investments, you may be deemed a burden or potential burden to the Canadian government and denied entry to Canada as a result.
7. Misrepresentation
This includes withholding material facts that would hamper the enforcement of Canadian immigration laws as set forth by IRPA or falsifying said information.
As an example, if you are seeking immigration sponsorship from a Canadian citizen and forge their signature on your application, you are guilty of misrepresentation. The same is true if you falsify your age or marital status to immigrate under a certain class. Misrepresentation is taken very seriously can could result in a two-year ban from the country or jail time. A lawyer can help you overcome this decision based on the facts of your case.
8. Failure to Comply with Any Provision of IRPA
Examples of non-compliance with IRPA include working or studying in Canada without proper permits, seeking unauthorized re-entry into the country following deportation or being a permanent resident who has failed to meet the residency obligation, that is, not being physically located in Canada for at least two of the last five years. Failure to comply with IRPA may result in the issuance of a Removal Order.
If you have received a Removal Order, you may regain entry to Canada by obtaining an Authorization to Return to Canada (ARC) document. Once you apply for an ARC, be advised that you will be required to reimburse the Canadian government for removal costs before the ARC is issued.
9. Possible Overstays
You may be denied entry to Canada if the government suspects that you will overstay your visit or if they have evidence that you have done so in the past. For instance, if you went to college in Canada and remained in the country beyond your student visa’s expiration date, you may be denied entry to Canada. In this case, you will need an ARC.
10. Having an Inadmissible Family Member
If you are traveling with a family member who is inadmissible for any of the above reasons, you too are inadmissible.

10 Most Common Reasons You May Be Denied Entry to Canada. Explained. - 2018 US & Canadian Immigration News, Updates:

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Quote from edwardaneal

lets have some fun with this - just because I can
forget the prison time lets talk about the ill gotten gain

Parents robbed banks 15 years ago, invested stolen money and died leaving great wealth to their children - - should the children get to keep that wealth?

Since we're not answering the question and just posing more questions...

Parents robbed banks 15 years ago and used it to give their kids a better upbringing than the poverty the parents came from. Now the kids are grown and are fully integrated into our society as law-abiding young adults. Should the children be treated as criminals?