Water-Methanol System

    I know it's only been 1 week since your last post, but I was wondering how you feel the system is working now?
    Did you choose the Stage 2 just to get the Boost gauge/methanol controller or are there other advantages to the Stage 2 over the Stage 1? I'm thinking about the Stage 1 system as I already have an Innovate SCG-1 Boost/AFR gauge w/data logging capability and I don't plan on running anything over 6-8 psi boost.

    @BKL So far every thing is going good on the setup. I am working on possibly getting a dyno run this weekend to see if I can get some numbers with the system spraying and not. Once it starts spraying it is definitely smoother on the top end, no crazy running problems either. With checking my tank I have ran a half of tank of meth to 1 fill up.
    When I talked with Snow Performance at their shop, they suggested the Stage 2 with the controller because it's more controllable then their stage 1. They recommend the stage 1 to guys doing strip racing. The stage 2 is also easier to install and control with their gauge controller. It is easier to change when it sprays within seconds, or just turn it off when you don't want to run the meth. The stage 1 just turns on at a certain boost level with a boost switch and keeps spraying till the boost signal goes away. Another cool feature of the stage 2 is the ability to add and control a second nozzle once the HP goes up and motor can handle the eXtra HP, such as in Rabtechs SS. Which I plan on adding after I build my motor.

    @BKL I haven't had a single issue so far. Over 1,000 miles on the system and everything is running smooth. Did 200 mile trip with the Rocky Mountain group this weekend and it performed flawlessly. AEM is pretty much the same kit as the Snow. Snow has be the pioneer that I know of and then AEM followed suit. Another plus is I have Snow Performance right down the street if I need anything.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T537A using Polaris Slingshot Forum mobile app

    Water/meth will gain nothing unless you tune for it, it only helps with detonation and cools IAT, on the negative you're putting water on a fire so all gains negate the positives again unless you tune for it, which is not wise as these systems are 100% unreliable. They are a great buffer when working properly. The methanol shrinks o-rings and fatigues the quick clip fittings that all of these systems use, also tears up the seals and impeller inside the pumps. Once you replace fittings by the month, and pumps by the year, you'll start to understand. Fitting issues can be remedied by changing out everything to brass, however the pumps will still have issues. A great idea, and widely used now, however a time bomb none the less. I worked with Snow back in 2004 on their first kit ever made that was fitted around the VW/Audi 1.8T. I used it for awhile on my 1.8T but ended up ditching it as I was starting to rely too much on it for high boost and knew it was going to lead to destruction.


    Proceed with caution!


    -Shawn-

    Quote from FFShawn

    Water/meth will gain nothing unless you tune for it, it only helps with detonation and cools IAT, on the negative you're putting water on a fire so all gains negate the positives again unless you tune for it, which is not wise as these systems are 100% unreliable. They are a great buffer when working properly. The methanol shrinks o-rings and fatigues the quick clip fittings that all of these systems use, also tears up the seals and impeller inside the pumps. Once you replace fittings by the month, and pumps by the year, you'll start to understand. Fitting issues can be remedied by changing out everything to brass, however the pumps will still have issues. A great idea, and widely used now, however a time bomb none the less. I worked with Snow back in 2004 on their first kit ever made that was fitted around the VW/Audi 1.8T. I used it for awhile on my 1.8T but ended up ditching it as I was starting to rely too much on it for high boost and knew it was going to lead to destruction.


    Proceed with caution!


    -Shawn-

    Have you ran the AEM failsafe gauge with any of the setups you have done?


    Water/Methanol FAILSAFE Device


    We have installed a lot of those on the Water/Meth setups we have installed here and that gauge works really well to tell when the flow rate does not match what is setup in the system. We then tie the output alarm to the boost controller and pull back boost to the spring pressure which is setup to be able to run without the water/meth spraying. We have seen the system save several failures now when it detects the flow vs. pump duty cycle do not correlate properly. Typically we are also tuning for the -20 windshield washer fluid on our water/meth setups. We can not get quite the same power gains as a 50:50 water/meth blend, but we still see a 10% gain at the wheels with that fluid, that fluid is not corrosive like 50:50 water/meth and customers can buy it almost anywhere for $2 a gallon when they run out. You are absolutely correct though, running 50:50 water meth setups are definitely something that needs to be checked on regularly to make sure they are working properly, since typically you are running 5-6 degrees more timing, if you loose that water/meth the engines will typically knock very badly.

    My interest in running a Water/Methanol injection system is simply as a means of minimizing the chances of running lean. A few hundred spent on the injection system might prove to be cheap insurance against engine damage. I don't plan on pushing boost beyond basic system design of my Hahn Stage 2 system.

    My installer suggested I consider doing this while hes putting in the Turbo. As our gas up north tends not be very good. As i use my ss on the street and not the track i suspect this is not legal to do in Canada for street use?

    Although I do like water/meth to help make more power, keep internals clean and helping to prevent detonation, if the tune is not altered to take advantage of it, you will make slightly less power, although if you are tuned to take advantage of the water/meth you should gain atleast 10% power tyically. If you are installing one of the turbo kits out there already, they should all run fine on your gas as long the gas octane is above the recommended by the kit manufacturer, which is typically 91 ocatne. If you are doing a custom turbo kit, then just make sure the tune is done with the gas you are most likely to use. From our experience, the gas up north is fine and still much better than the gas we deal with in the southwest US and we have never had problems with gas from Canada while tuning remote.


    Here is the verbage on AEM's website about use on the street -


    "THIS PRODUCT MAY BE USED SOLELY ON VEHICLES USED IN SANCTIONED COMPETITION WHICH MAY NEVER BE USED UPON A PUBLIC ROAD OR HIGHWAY, UNLESS PERMITTED BY SPECIFIC REGULATORY EXEMPTION (VISIT THE “EMISSIONS” PAGE AT HTTP://WWW.SEMASAN.COM/EMISSIONS FOR STATE BY STATE DETAILS.
    IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE INSTALLER AND/OR USER OF THIS PRODUCT TO ENSURE THAT IT IS USED IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL APPLICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS. IF THIS PRODUCT WAS PURCHASED IN ERROR, DO NOT INSTALL AND/OR USE IT. THE PURCHASER MUST ARRANGE TO RETURN THE PRODUCT(S) FOR A FULL REFUND.
    THIS POLICY ONLY APPLIES TO INSTALLERS AND/OR USERS WHO ARE LOCATED IN THE UNITED STATES, HOWEVER CUSTOMERS WHO RESIDE IN OTHER COUNTRIES SHOULD ACT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR LOCAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS."